Suggestions for 2 foot high wall on pond?

[taherrmann4]

Mucky that link didn't work...

 

[Mucky_Waters]

For the record, I agree with Sissy, I like the versatility of retaining wall blocks, they are kind of like building with Lego in that you can go back and fix or change things without beaking things apart, and you never have to mix any cement or mortar. Although I don't remember ever getting such a sore back playing with Lego???
Split face is the a common pattern for retaining wall blocks.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Mucky that link didn't work...

try this http://www.barker.co...=31&product=310

Taber I fixed the link.

 

[Waterbug]

Mucky, that link is to a block wall. A retaining wall wall is a different deal, or should be imo.

Sissy, if you're talking about these type of block, the manufacturer doesn't really recommend higher than 15-28" and that's for soil. I have seen temp 2' deep ponds built with these indoors and they did seem pretty solid.

I do agree 100% that concrete rebar bond beam isn't a requirement. And 2' is not that high. It's really a question of how long you want it to last, whether you don't mind problems, etc. The cracked pond in the picture was fixed by wrapping the pond in steel and adding wall buttresses. So these things can be fixed afterward. That builder was just unlucky really. A bit more mortar in a lucky spot and that pond might have held for a good while.

My post is how I would do it, not how I think others should. Just suggestions for consideration. The fun is in the doing. Always do it your way. But post pictures of the project.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Mucky, that link is to a block wall. A retaining wall wall is a different deal, or should be imo.

The other name for bond beam blocks is "lintel Blocks", and the first time I ever noticed them being used was in conjunction with the regular concrete blocks. It use to be popular to build foundation walls with blocks (still is in some places). Anyway, I noticed the mason had a few of these odd blocks with the middle portion missing out of them, so I asked him what they were for, he explained that they used them above the doors and windows with rebar in them to form the "lintel" support above these openings.

Waterbug, I don't mean to be argumentative, but are not bock foundations basicly just retaining walls the retain the soil back from the basement (or crawl space) hole?

 

[Waterbug]

Waterbug, I don't mean to be argumentative, but are not bock foundations basicly just retaining walls the retain the soil back from the basement (or crawl space) hole?

I don't think so. If there's an equal amount of soil on either side nothing would be retained. Purely compressive. A house with a basement can be a retaining wall. In areas with stable soil and areas of low seismic activity, only the top 16" or so are required to be filled, no reinforcing is required in the middle blocks. Some US cities require vertical rebar in some cores and those cores have to be filled. So the block wall in your link would be OK for part of the wall. To me that isn't what I would call a retaining wall since it isn't retaining much. I mean even regular block walls do retain something, like wind for example. In areas of loose soil (sand or water) and seismic areas the cores have to have vertical and horizontal rebar and be filled with at least grout.

I think it has to come down to whether any wall can with stand the pressure, be it soil or water. I'm pretty sure (no source to back this up) water puts a lot more pressure on a wall than even the weakest soils. So my way of thinking is an above grade pond wall has to be stronger than a retaining wall.

But this project doesn't have to follow code and is only 2'. I'd be willing to bet you could dry stack regular block, fill the cores with packed soil and that sucker would hold. Seriously. Might bow a bit and fail within a few years, might not. I think it would be at it's limits and so really luck comes into play. There's really an infinite number of ways to build these things because you're not limited by code. I only suggest the filled bond beam because to me it's the DIY choice with the best chance of zero problems. For me personally I'd kind of hate to suggest something that failed in a few years or something I had no experience with. I know I can't be taken to court or something, but for me it doesn't feel right.

There are a lot of shortcuts too that could be taken. Like you can skip horizontal rebar in some courses. The top course has little water pressure so could be 1/4 filled. That type of thing. To me, for first time builders, I say keep it simple. It costs maybe $100 in extra material and there's extra time, but your chance of success is higher imo. Have you see how it all works you'll know better on the next project where you can cut back. Just my thinking.

In the example failed wall the first time builder was skipping things she didn't think were needed and she just got unlucky and skipped one too many.

Here's a cool web site devoted to failed retaining walls. I love pictures of failures. They stick in my head better than words.

 

[Waterbug]

The other name for bond beam blocks is "lintel Blocks".

Kind of, but not really. lintels are solid on the bottom and so no vertical rebar is possible and you don't get solid vertical columns when the cores are filled. More info.

 

[sissy]

well I used that retaining wall block you showed and it has not been a problem for me .Mine is just over 2 feet in spots .I do have a row of concrete block rebared inside the retaining wall block .But it is just one row and filled with dirt and rebared in .The liner is over top of the concrete block not over the retaining wall block .This pond has been here for over 5 years now and the only time I have moved any of it was to add to one side of my pond .This pond went through the earthquake we had here also .I did a good 2 foot deep by 2 foot wide crushed gravel base and then filled in between the concrete block and the retaining wall block .

 

[sissy]

oh and yes I played with legos also and never had one aching muscle ,mucky :razz: think it is the age thing .

 

[JCschild]

ok this very small building project is getting obsurdly over complicated.
First i am a former builder (got out before the crash a good while ago and do computers now)
built in NY, FL, NC and KY. (in that order) reason for quiting.. i moved to where winter was (i hate the cold) as i got older plus my back and age (51now).

nothing shown thus far is a "retaining wall block" although the pic above mucky posted looks like retaining wall block

there are 3 types of retaining walls 2 of which use preformed block, they both have a LIP.
http://www.homedepot...k&storeId=10051

the average retailing wall does not use any concrete anywhere for anything including the base.
larger commercial projects will have some type of tie back and or poured concrete cells. or even solid concrete then the blocks are used as a face.

the 3rd is a solid poured wall with tie backs basically a latteral footer(sideways usually at a 30-45% angle downward) if you will.

as the blocks are stacked the lip holds the wall in place.
a simple 2' tall wall (2-4 blocks high depending on what block) will be more than strong enough..

base.. based on the pic of your yard its hard to say what soil type you have or compaction but it looks undisturbed for a good while.
i have clay which made it easy but i also had loose soil and some odd almost lava rock type material plus it looks like at some point a part of that area was a burn pile area. (1922 old farm house on what was a working farm at one point)

and yes some areas i did tamp down.
i started from the low spot and dug into the ground until my first course was buried. add 2nd course etc.
i have numerous "retaining wall block" projects in my yard including my pool (sloped ground) which is 6 blocks high at its highest. talk about water pressure..!

none have failed or lost soil. i lost some sand in the pool area the first yr but it stopped now.

only issue i had is the one spot i had a constant leak in my waterfall and water was getting under my liner and going out the bottom opposite the falls, 3 of the blocks have dropped about 3/4 of an inch..

 

[Waterbug]

I once used straw bales as a retaining wall...worked great.

 

[JCschild]

funny guy

 

[sissy]

retaining wall block .I wanted to use the larger ones but considering there weight and being I was doing this by myself I knew I could handle these and since my driveway is all the way on the other side of my property and only had a lawn mower and cart to haul them ,these were for me .Best got them onsale for 1.25 each

 

[sissy]

this pic is of the inner wall ,can't see the concrete block but you can see where it is ans second is where one of my filters is and that is a lot taller than 2 feet .I am redoing the pond because I had a problem with the over flow under the water fall filter on this side .The land sloped and i wanted to keep the pond close to my raised covered front porch so I could look down on the pond and enjoy it in the evenings .Last pick is where the steps come down off the porch and the side walk goes along side and to the basement doors under the porch

 

[sissy]

The heat has been so bad I have given the fish a little shade cover ,no rain but lots of storms for weeks now .But rain is hiding from me so fish go under cover ,plus since i am working on the bridge and pond it is safer for them .