Stupid mistake, Totally Devastated, Huge loss

[addy1]

I use a sprinkler control, works great, electronic so not batteries to worry about. Set it and it runs all summer. We have a house filter on it, since our well water has small bits of rocks and dirt in it which can mess up the controls.

 

[crsublette]

A refrigerator icemaker needle valve can be used to refill water loss due to evaporation. It can be adjusted from a slow drip to a small stream. The small amount of chlorine dissipates quickly.
A secondary pump intake chamber like Charles suggested would be failsafe without altering anything inside the pond.View attachment 69530 You could also install a float switch inside the chamber to save the pump.

Yep, exactly!

I think that would be the cheapest and best way to avoid these type of accidents that was experienced here. Also, I would make sure the secondary chamber is no bigger than it needs to be; otherwise, debris would accumulate in it.

Picture attached below describes how mine would be setup if it was only a low water prevention device. The pipe can be 1" or 3" or 8" or whatever. It is much like a sight indicator for water level except underground and with a pump or something else attached to the bottom.

Honestly, I would not rely on any type of switch for low water level prevention.


The sensors are really used so to not lose the pump. There are vertical float switches, most commonly seen in aquarium top off systems, except you are limited in configuration in a pond context when also involving a high level sensor; if you are only using a low level sensor, then they are great to save the pump. Major benefits of conductivity and vertical float switches is that they require much less space, that can easily fit in a 1" pipe acting like the secondary chamber outside of the pond. Bladder float valves, whether the bladder is a ball or bottle etc, require much more space.


Personally, I would only use water auto-fill devices for top-offs to replenish water that was evaporated or pond leak rather than using it to stop a pump or system from draining the pond. Auto-fill devices, such as bladder float valves, are designed to install on the water outtake so to add water rather than to stop water from being pumped out. Although, if the auto-fill device was installed on the pump/system intake, then it could be used to stop a pump from draining a pond?? I would be cautious to using the device like this since it was not designed for this.

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[Waterbug]

Yes, auto fills are only for top offs. Pretty tough for household water source to keep up with a pump that is emptying pond. Plus the chlorine. Larkin may have another water source.

I'm not sure how people are plumbing their BD but a gravity flow BD will stop if the pond water level drops very much (less than 12"). Hooking a pump directly to the BD is not really a very good option for several reasons, including a empty pond.

 

[sissy]

My neighbor did not want a float switch or automatic refill so only thing I could think of was to put 2 rain barrels on a gutter system we hooked up to her metal shed and the rain barrels slowly fill the pond ,but of course are limited to there being water in the rain barrels .But only thing I could think of since her pond is near the shed so it was easy to put 2 rain barrels on the back side of the shed .I used really small hose with turn off valves so you could turn them on high or low flow .Rain barrels are set up with over flow diverter and also a first flow clean out .So first part of rain water goes into that and she just opens it to clean it out

 

[crsublette]

I'm not sure how people are plumbing their BD but a gravity flow BD will stop if the pond water level drops very much (less than 12"). Hooking a pump directly to the BD is not really a very good option for several reasons, including a empty pond.

Yep, If it is purely a gravity flow system, then the water level would stop draining whenever the level goes below the level of the gravity flow filtration. However, if the pond was raised and/or the filtration was in a deep pit causing the filtration's water level to be lower, then this could come incredibly close to draining a pond.

After thinking about it, in Fishin's context, I have the impression that the gravity system is significantly lower than the pond and this allowed the pump to not completely lose suction so to then drain the pond.

At this moment, I am using the pressurized Zakki Sieve filter along with the MC-50, which involves a pump directly connecting to the BD, and here is an excellent video thread explaining this setup. The disadvantages I have encountered of having a pump connected directly to the BD is that I unfortunately have to rely on switches for my low water prevention device. I don't know how else to implement it to avoid using a switch for low water prevention.

 

[crsublette]

sure...

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/alarm.html

After thinking about it more and due to the conversation here, Fishin's vortex might possibly be an excellent location for this device if properly mounted near the top.

 

[brokensword]

After thinking about it more and due to the conversation here, Fishin's vortex might possibly be an excellent location for this device if properly mounted near the top.

that's the idea; I have mine tied securely so the ball when it falls, will trigger pump shutoff at about a 12" loss, still giving me 3' and protecting almost everything in the pond, pump included. And it's real simple, though like all electrical things, is subject to power loss. But since my pump is plugging into the float switch, even if the switch dies, the pump still shuts off. For a sump, would be a problem but since I WANT the pump to stop, this works to my advantage even if it puts the pond's normal operation in jeopardy should the power fail and I'm not around soon enough to sort out the issue. But if the power fails, I figure I have other issues just as pressing. I should look into getting a battery backup and I'd have both avenues covered.

 

[Waterbug]

Yep, If it is purely a gravity flow system, then the water level would stop draining whenever the level goes below the level of the gravity flow filtration. However, if the pond was raised and/or the filtration was in a deep pit causing the filtration's water level to be lower, then this could come incredibly close to draining a pond.

You are mistaken. In a gravity flow BD the outflow is always at the same level as the pond's water level. It doesn't matter if the pond is raised, filter pit, etc. If a person was foolish enough to mount the BD output more than a couple inches below the pond's water level they would learn very quickly why that can never work.

Other setups like sending BD to a pressurized filter isn't a gravity flow system.

 

[Dave 54]

You are mistaken. In a gravity flow BD the outflow is always at the same level as the pond's water level. It doesn't matter if the pond is raised, filter pit, etc. If a person was foolish enough to mount the BD output more than a couple inches below the pond's water level they would learn very quickly why that can never work.

Other setups like sending BD to a pressurized filter isn't a gravity flow system.

Being the owner of a bottom drained pond ourselves we are well aware that if a mistake is made the pond will drain.
This whole accident happened because the vortex purge valve was lft open so the water drained straight out of the pond into the vortex and into the drain and no cut off switch would stop this it's sadly down to human error sadly this is the problem with bottom drains gravity will drain the whole pond.
A pressurised filter will stop this you are correct in that but does Larkin want to start ripping the gravity fed system out or keep it., any how since this accident it got Val and I to thinking and we came up with an idea Larkin could use in the future.
A simple quick fix for this would be to use a system of small flags indicting if a drain is open "say a red one and a green one indicating the valve is closed" for use when working on the pond and filters", they can be removed after maintenance is done.and put in place whgen needed for the next maintenance and water change period
it wouldnt cost more than a couple of dollars over the cost of a pressure filter plus the time and effort to rip out the old system plumbing into place fresh pipework plus the disroption this would cause.

Dave

 

[Waterbug]

Like I said a few posts back...I have no idea how Larkin's pond is plumbed.

But in general a BD gravity fed to a vortex can be plumbed so it would stop should the pond level drop by even a few inches even if the vortex's dump valve is left open. For example:

I wouldn't plumb a vortex either of these ways. Pics are just to show how to stop a BD to gravity fed filter could be plumbed to stop complete pond loss.

But I'm not really suggesting anything to Larkin, I'm sure he has that covered My post was for other people.reading the thread so they weren't confused by some misinformation.

 

[Dave 54]

My setup is somewhat similar to this waterbug and believe you me if the vortex valve is open that pond will drain down and not to the level you've indicated there the weight of water in the pond will drain it

Dave

 

[crsublette]

I wouldn't plumb a vortex either of these ways. Pics are just to show how to stop a BD to gravity fed filter could be plumbed to stop complete pond loss.

Kudos for the 2nd diaghram, except the pipe would enter at the top of the vortex rather than the bottom, as shown in this diagram.

These type of setups are commonly seen in gravity flow aqua-ponic systems.

I wouldn't even use a valve. I would keep the top of that pipe open, as shown in the picture attached below. The open pipe simply breaks the siphoning by injecting air preventing a water lock from being formed.

Rather than an open pipe, an "air relief ball valve", as named in farming irrigation lingo, would work if built right and would likely need to be installed on the side. When pressure is relieved, due to the pond's water level lowering at the pipe's height where the valve is installed, then the ball moves so to allow air to enter and this air breaks the siphon. When the pond's water level goes above the valve, then pressure is applied causing the ball to close the valve. Keep in mind there is some water "dribbling" out during the transition.


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[fishin4cars]

Thank you all for the suggestions and solutions that I could try. I'm going to install the low water shut off but that's about it. plan on splitting the koi in the lily pond and just let them ride. Now for the sad news. After a lot of thought and debate the wife and I have decided to part ways and put the farm up for sale. No possible way to keep up with the farm on my own and I couldn't afford it if I tried. To many pets have passed, Kids seem to be constantly at war and since my daughter isn't welcomed by my wife, and my step daughters boyfriend is banned from setting foot back on the property I don't expect any assistance from them. We sat down this evening and after a long calm talk decided it was best to move on and let the farm go. So if anyone is interested in buying a small farm that include several ponds including two mud ponds and five Koi/Goldfish ponds, Livestock included, 60+ Koi, 12 Pygmy goats, 18 chickens, and four ducks. Livestock can be relocated if not wanted. Lots of other extras included in the sell. I plan on getting the appraisal done in the next week to two weeks and it will go on the open market shortly after. It's been an adventure but time to let the dream go.

 

[CountryEscape]

Oh my ... I'm sooo sorry to hear about all of this, Larkin. Sounds like the koi loss was the last straw and an already tense situation. Gosh, wish there were words to help and make things better, but sometimes it's best to move on. Good luck to you and your future. Glad you were able to talk about it calmly, and with all the problems with children into the mix, that sure makes it extremely difficult to keep peace in the family. I'm sure you will miss all the little ones you have so painstakenly chosen over the last year or so, but I'm sure someone else is going to be extremely happy to take over your babies for you on their own farms.
Peace to you and your families.

 

[crsublette]

Oh man... As the old saying goes, "bad news comes in threes"... Makes ya wonder when the last "shoe" will drop...

Hey man, stay under cover and be safe!! This is what matters...

I still highly recommend the Irish Wake idea.