Some Questions on Filtration

[GBBUDD]

Regardless of concentration of chlorines or chloramines they are added to or waters to Prevent and kill bacteria. Now we are walking talking towers of bacteria. We survive. Does that say chlorines are not harmful to us hell no. Its the concentration, conditions and duration that all add up to its level of it being harmful and to what degree.
In short if you can grab a 5 gallon bucket of pond water and rinse your filters that way you are doing far less harm to your bacteria.

 

[mrsclem]

I keep an 800gph pump in my pond with a long sump pump tubing. Use that to hose off filters.

 

[Marion777]

Can I ask what your water source is? I envy people with well water, no added chemicals. We are on county water, 1 block from the treatment area where they add chlorine. Turn on the tap first thing and it reeks of bleach. No one in our area drinks it. We had several cats die from bladder stones when we moved here. Finally found out the water is extremely high in minerals. All bottled water now.
My point is, everybody's situation is different. While I don't believe in adding bacteria and a lot of the other chemicals, I would not have any fish if I did not use a chlorine remover.

I don’t have well water. I
Live in the country but have city water-full of chlorine! It doesn’t bother the fish at all. It’s all bs! If you don’t believe, put a goldfish in a 5 gallon bucket full of tap water overnight. It’ll be just fine in the morning

 

[WaterGardener]

Not necessarily. Many people kill all their fish, goldfish included, by using chlorinated water. What you are saying just isn't always true. Even if by some chance they might survive, how can you know that you haven't done permanent damage to their gills and compromised their health?

Admittedly, goldfish are tough and may not have obvious issues with your particular chlorinated water, but chlorine can shorten their lifespans.

As has already been stated, the amount of damage can depend on the concentration of those chemicals in your particular water supply. Making generalized statements is irresponsible, in my opinion.

It can also depend on whether or not the water treatment is chlorine or chloramine. Chloramine adds ammonia to chlorine and ammonia can be toxic to fish. Chloramine also does not gas off like chlorine does. So it pretty much requires using a product to neutralize that chemical for the water to be safe for fish.

The fact that you need to clean your filters every day in summer is an indication that you don't have enough filtration for the fish load you have. Have you ever tested your water?

Filters should not need to be cleaned that often. But if that suits you, so be it. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but most of us would prefer not to be cleaning filters daily. And some of us actually take vacations when daily cleaning would be impossible.

 

[jgrandmont]

The number of gallons is irrelevant. The concentration of the chlorine or chloramine is what makes it toxic to your beneficial bacteria on those filter pads.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. The more water volume you have in the pond, the less concentrated the chemicals will be, at least in terms of affecting the fish, which is what I was talking about. Of course, pond volume has no effect on the bacteria on the filter pads themselves. And beneficial bacteria does not only exist on the pads.

 

[WaterGardener]

Yes, I understood you were talking about the concentration of chlorine in the entire pond. But I was only referring to killing the bacteria in the filter pads. We were comparing apples and oranges.

And yes, the bacteria lives on all hard surfaces of a pond, but from what I understand, the majority is in the filter. Why would you want to routinely knock back most of the beneficial bacteria in the system? Makes no sense to me, but that's only my take on it.

Everyone does things differently. What works for one person may not work for another and that's fine.

 

[Lisak1]

The more water volume you have in the pond, the less concentrated the chemicals will be, at least in terms of affecting the fish, which is what I was talking about.

Well, no. The concentration of chlorine will be the same regardless of how many gallons of water you have. % is % regardless if you're talking about 1% or 100%. Each gallon of water - each DROP of water for that matter - will have the same concentration of chlorine. Now if you're talking about a chemical being added DIRECTLY to a pond, then yes, the concentration will depend on the size of the pond. But chlorine added at the municipal level will be the same concentration regardless.

 

[Marion777]

I don't use chemicals either and I'm fortunate enough to have good well water. I also have crystal clear pond water without having to drain and refill it every month.

I've done that only once in going on 10 years of having this pond. That was when the pond was new and we hadn't quite worked out the drainage around the pond. It's built into a hill and we had a very heavy rain that washed mud into it and that was the only way to clean it out.

With a mature pond that has sufficient filtration, you should never need to replace all the water. That's not necessary with an aquarium as well.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, but I wouldn't want to replace 6,000 gallons of water each and every month. Too much trouble and expense for me and a lot of stress on the fish. And frankly, a waste of good water.

I never drain my aquarium, just add 2-3 gallons of water when needed. I drain the pond monthly cuz algae grows in the big sunken pots with my waterlillies in them. That algae I hose off & suck out with a pump vaxumn & I just like to put fresh water in there every month or so. Doesn’t hurt the fish & the grandkids quite enjoy it.

Not necessarily. Many people kill all their fish, goldfish included, by using chlorinated water. What you are saying just isn't always true. Even if by some chance they might survive, how can you know that you haven't done permanent damage to their gills and compromised their health?

Admittedly, goldfish are tough and may not have obvious issues with your particular chlorinated water, but chlorine can shorten their lifespans.

As has already been stated, the amount of damage can depend on the concentration of those chemicals in your particular water supply. Making generalized statements is irresponsible, in my opinion.

It can also depend on whether or not the water treatment is chlorine or chloramine. Chloramine adds ammonia to chlorine and ammonia can be toxic to fish. Chloramine also does not gas off like chlorine does. So it pretty much requires using a product to neutralize that chemical for the water to be safe for fish.

The fact that you need to clean your filters every day in summer is an indication that you don't have enough filtration for the fish load you have. Have you ever tested your water?

Filters should not need to be cleaned that often. But if that suits you, so be it. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but most of us would prefer not to be cleaning filters daily. And some of us actually take vacations when daily cleaning would be impossible.

cause they’re between 5&12 yrs old & their “gills” and ALL the rest of them are fat, big, & happy! The Koi are 3 yrs old & their “gills” seem to be working fine-a-roo. I don’t really care “what” people do. All I’m saying is that chlorine remover & all the other xpensive crap “the so called Xperts” advise is ALL BS in “MY” opinion & Xperience. Do whatever u wanna do with your own fish. Just tryin to help people save some $$ and tell them my Xperience. If you’d like to dump a 5 gallon bucket of chlorine remover-by all means-do it. Wishing you success with your pond & fishies. I know we all enjoy them quite a bit & want them to be fat & healthy or we wouldn’t have them to begin with

 

[Lisak1]

I drain my pond down as much as possible abt once a month in the hot summer mnts, till the fish are laying on their sides, spraying the rocks while it’s draining to suck out every bit of gunk I can. Then I fill it up w nice fresh cold water from the hose, I don’t add chlorine remover or chemicals or anything. The fish are fine. Ive Been doin it for 30 yrs & never lost a fish over it. Its just like doin a water chg in your aquarium & I do the same wth that.

"Draining your pond down" and doing a water change are not the same thing. Not even close. But keep it up. One of the reasons you have to clean your filters so often is you're not letting your pond find it's balance. Constant new water equals constant new pond syndrome.

How big is your pond @Marion777 ? Can you share some photos? We love seeing ponds and fish, especially now when the weather is less than pond friendly in many part of the world.

 

[WaterGardener]

I think we are still talking apples and oranges. I was only addressing cleaning filters with chlorinated water, not filling the pond with it. If only filters are cleaned, the chlorine would be diluted by the hopefully dechlorinated pond water when the filters are replaced. But the beneficial bacteria on those filter pads would be damaged.

@Lisak makes a good point about regularly replacing the water. With a mature pond, there is no overgrowth of algae like there is in ponds with new water.

 

[jgrandmont]

Well, no. The concentration of chlorine will be the same regardless of how many gallons of water you have. % is % regardless if you're talking about 1% or 100%. Each gallon of water - each DROP of water for that matter - will have the same concentration of chlorine. Now if you're talking about a chemical being added DIRECTLY to a pond, then yes, the concentration will depend on the size of the pond. But chlorine added at the municipal level will be the same concentration regardless.

OK, I guess I've got to make myself clearer as people are not understanding. OF COURSE, the concentration in a GIVEN volume is the same regardless of the volume! I'm talking about ADDING a GIVEN amount of chemical to a GIVEN amount of volume. The more volume, the more dilute (less concentrated) that chemical will be. Like rinsing off filter pads with town water (which I thought is what we were talking about). The amount of chemicals you're potentially adding to the pond OVERALL via any town water ON THE FILTER PADS will be mitigated by the amount of pond volume. More volume equals less concentration in the pond. And of course, the chlorine at the municipal level will be the same concentration.

 

[jgrandmont]

Everyone does things differently. What works for one person may not work for another and that's fine.

That's the exact point I was trying to make. I explained what I do and gave the volume of my pond to say that it works for me and maybe it would work for someone else with the same set-up.

 

[jgrandmont]

If only filters are cleaned, the chlorine would be diluted by the hopefully dechlorinated pond water when the filters are replaced.

BINGO!

 

[WaterGardener]

Yes, but the beneficial bacteria would still be damaged and knocked back. It wouldn't likely affect the fish.

 

[Lisak1]

OK, I guess I've got to make myself clearer as people are not understanding. OF COURSE, the concentration in a GIVEN volume is the same regardless of the volume! I'm talking about ADDING a GIVEN amount of chemical to a GIVEN amount of volume. The more volume, the more dilute (less concentrated) that chemical will be. Like rinsing off filter pads with town water (which I thought is what we were talking about). The amount of chemicals you're potentially adding to the pond OVERALL via any town water ON THE FILTER PADS will be mitigated by the amount of pond volume. More volume equals less concentration in the pond. And of course, the chlorine at the municipal level will be the same concentration.

We’re saying the same thing - we agree!