Snakes

[Nyboy]

The only mention of killing was for venomous snakes. If they are in my yard sorry safety of my family and pets came before a snake. The beauty of minnow trap is harmless snakes can be set free unharmed.

 

[tbendl]

You can contact your local animal control center and see if they have a nonprofit wildlife rescue place locally. They might come and set traps and relocate.

 

[Lisak1]

They are rattlesnakes mainly - small ones, but still dangerous. They do kill them on a regular basis as they really can't risk living with them in their yard. They have raised four kids in that house and have dogs, plus my sister is a gardener who is in her yard all the time. And they tried animal control when they first moved there 25 years ago - they just chuckled and said "get used to it". They live in a very suburban style neighborhood but on the regular see foxes, mountain lions, moose, deer, etc., just walking down the road or grazing in the front yard. It's cool but also kind of crazy sometimes. The animals are so used to seeing people, they exhibit no fear.

I've never understood why people are offended when a human protects their living space from wildlife - those same animals would kill each other, or YOU if they could, without thinking twice about it if it meant protecting their home, their food source, or their young. Aren't we part of the whole web of life? Don't we have a place on the planet, too? I'm not talking about seeking them out and killing them in their habitat - although I'm not opposed to people who hunt for food, either. I just don't find it offensive when people have to take whatever means necessary to keep their home - which includes their yard, their garden, their pond, their kids, their pets, etc., - safe and secure from wildlife.

We live in an area that has a lot of open meadow and farm land around, so every fall we get inundated with mice who would rather live in our nice warm house and eat from our well stocked pantry. I kill a dozen or more mice every year. Do I just let them have their way in my house? Or maybe I should work out a trade with my sister and bring some of her snakes to live with us - they can eat the mice while the mice eat my food!

 

[Nyboy]

Very well said !!!!!!

 

[MoonShadows]

I relocate snakes to snake heaven with the back of my shovel or anything else that is handy...no matter what kind they are. Don't want them near my yard, my house or me. End of story for me.

 

[popeye46]

It seems that I created a mess when I said that killing all snakes was a crazy idea. There was no mention of venomous snakes (which I agree should be handled by someone experienced) it was said that all snakes should be killed, prior to my post and after, It was mentioned that when they move into suburbia that it is ok to defend our turf, so to speak. One thing not mentioned is that they are not the ones moving into our neighborhood but us (humans) moving into and destroying their domains. Poisonous snakes should never be removed by the home owners as they are truly dangerous and should only be removed and handled by someone that knows what they are doing. I have owned and collected reptiles ever since I was a kid and learned that they do have a place, I have collected rattlesnakes and sold them by the pound to UCLA to be milked for their venom to be made into anti venom which saves lives ( something you can't do with a dead snake). I don't like rodents I believe they are simply food for other animals including snakes. People need to understand that we are supposed to be the intelligent animal on this planet so far we are the ones who seem to be the ones causing most of the problems. Hunting for food is one thing trophy hunters on the other hand are a whole different subject. All I know is that now that we are retired our pond provides us with a small quiet and peaceful place to have a cup of coffee and relax to the sound of the waterfall and watch the wildlife that we are lucky enough to have show up to enjoy our pond with us.

 

[popeye46]

read this post and it says it all......
Killing snakes is a reaction of fright. I've had to terminate a few but I try and relocate if possible when it's a type that doesn't need to be in my yard. Of Course venomous need to be removed as they could hurt another pet, a child, or even my wife and I. water snakes I have to relocate as they get large enough here to actually catch fish and can be pretty agressive and even though not poisonous can leave a nasty bite.
I did a snake, lizard, and turtle show years ago for elementary schools. Doing research to teach the kids I learned a lot of of good reasons for snakes. But one thing that has stood out in my mind from that learning. Did you know that there are 100 times more humans deaths in the US alone related to rodent diseases, than there are total snake bites (Venomous and non-venomous combined!) In the world in a year?
Snakes are #2 in rodent control behind birds of prey in the US, and are the #1 rodent controllers in most parts of the world. Another fact that made me think long and hard about killing snakes, Out of every 100 snakes a human will see in the wild in the US, the chances are one out the 100 being a poisonous one.
These are some more interesting facts, Your more likely to get struck by lightning than being bitten by a venomous snake, On average there are about as many venomous snake bites each year in the US as shark attacks. Your far more likely to be killed in a car accident going to work or coming home from work than you are being bitten by a snake at all. And one last really interesting fact. If you were able to go back and go year by year, there are more years of people dying from heart attacks triggered by the site of a snake than people that were actually killed from a snake bite. Back when I read this is what something like 8/10 years or something like that.
Although snakes have been considered as dangerous, and evil since early times of man and the bible, Snakes are actually far more beneficial to humans alive than dead and without them we as humans would be far more likely to die from the plague, bacteria diseases, and flea bite infections with out snakes and birds of Prey.

 

[Lisak1]

One thing not mentioned is that they are not the ones moving into our neighborhood but us (humans) moving into and destroying their domains.

Well, if you take that to the extreme, then humans really have no place on the planet since the whole of the earth could be considered the domain of some wild creature or another. Where do we fit in the scheme of things?

Poisonous snakes should never be removed by the home owners as they are truly dangerous and should only be removed and handled by someone that knows what they are doing

And who would that person be? If you call animal control and they tell you it goes with the territory, then who do you call? I'm sure they could pay someone to remove them, but at what cost? And every day? This is not a one time freak occurrence - this is pretty much an ongoing situation.

it was said that all snakes should be killed, prior to my post and after,

Nope, nobody said all snakes should be killed. Read more carefully. There was mention of trapping and repelling but nobody said kill them all. And my initial post was just to ask if anyone had any idea how to keep them out of the pond.

All I know is that now that we are retired our pond provides us with a small quiet and peaceful place to have a cup of coffee and relax to the sound of the waterfall and watch the wildlife that we are lucky enough to have show up to enjoy our pond with us.

And if six or ten or twelve snakes were among that wildlife and they ate all your fish, would you feel the same way? Don't we have a responsibility to protect the animals in our care, too?

Not looking to have a fight - just pointing out that there are situations where we may not like the options that we have, but realistically there aren't many choices.

 

[popeye46]

Well, if you take that to the extreme, then humans really have no place on the planet since the whole of the earth could be considered the domain of some wild creature or another. Where do we fit in the scheme of things?



And who would that person be? If you call animal control and they tell you it goes with the territory, then who do you call? I'm sure they could pay someone to remove them, but at what cost? And every day? This is not a one time freak occurrence - this is pretty much an ongoing situation.


Nope, nobody said all snakes should be killed. Read more carefully. There was mention of trapping and repelling but nobody said kill them all. And my initial post was just to ask if anyone had any idea how to keep them out of the pond.



And if six or ten or twelve snakes were among that wildlife and they ate all your fish, would you feel the same way? Don't we have a responsibility to protect the animals in our care, too?

Not looking to have a fight - just pointing out that there are situations where we may not like the options that we have, but realistically there aren't many choices.

don't want a fight would just like people to realize that there are ways to accomplish it without killing them. and I did read the post nothing before mine but after it was said and I quote "I relocate snakes to snake heaven with the back of my shovel or anything else that is handy...no matter what kind they are. Don't want them near my yard, my house or me. End of story for me. I believe that means kill them all. I have learned over the last 60 years that animal control is useless for anything but cats and dogs. When I was a kid I lived in california people knew I collected snakes and they would call me and I would happily remove them for free. If you contact a local reptile club or pet shop that deals in reptiles they may be able to help you with your problem. I have owned many animals from snakes and lizards to a cheetah and have a fondness for all animals, most are simply trying to survive in a world that is being devastated by man. I wish that I was near I would take care of the problem that you have with your snakes but there should be someone nearby that can offer a solution. I have lost many of my animals to other animals and it affected me a lot but not enough to condemn them for what comes natural to them.........I apologize if I upset you but as you can tell I am passionate about animals of all kinds.....I hope you understand......I hope you get your problem solved and have a nice day.........Please never go near a rattlesnake the babies are just as potent as the adults!!!!!!

 

[Lisak1]

You didn't upset me. We can agree to disagree without anyone getting upset. I appreciate your viewpoint and for the most part share it. I love all of nature, animals included, but I also understand that it isn't all sunshine and roses. Nature is also fierce and unforgiving and sometimes unpleasantly violent. We are at the top of the heap in most instances so we do bear a greater responsibility. In this case, my sister feels responsible for the fish she puts in her pond - as would I. Calling someone to relocate the snakes would be dandy, but probably too late. Stopping them from getting into the pond in the first place would solve one problem; how she gets rid of the snakes ultimately is another story.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions - they are all appreciated!

 

[popeye46]

You didn't upset me. We can agree to disagree without anyone getting upset. I appreciate your viewpoint and for the most part share it. I love all of nature, animals included, but I also understand that it isn't all sunshine and roses. Nature is also fierce and unforgiving and sometimes unpleasantly violent. We are at the top of the heap in most instances so we do bear a greater responsibility. In this case, my sister feels responsible for the fish she puts in her pond - as would I. Calling someone to relocate the snakes would be dandy, but probably too late. Stopping them from getting into the pond in the first place would solve one problem; how she gets rid of the snakes ultimately is another story.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions - they are all appreciated!

thanx for understanding. our pond is about 4000 gallons also, biofilter. How do you keep you waterfall running all winter? this will be our first winter with it and that would be awesome. P.S. We have 26 goldfish and they "ALL" have names. lol

 

[Lisak1]

I think one of the biggest secrets to overwintering your pond is in the construction - your waterfall has to be built in such a way that it can form ice without the water being diverted out of the pond. Our waterfall is wide - almost three feet across - and in the coldest parts of winter it ices over completely, but the water continues to flow under the ice. The waterfall was also constructed to be concave - the sides are higher than the middle - so the water isn't going to get pushed out when ice forms. The pond will ice over completely, but the water continues to flow, meaning we don't have to worry about de-icers or keeping a hole in the ice. The only winter time concern we have is watching the water level. We have a special short hose that I keep in the house that we use to fill the pond when the water level gets low, but we have only had to use it twice in five winters.

We actually shut our pond down the first year. We really didn't think it was possible to keep it running. Because of the way our pond is constructed, turning off the pump drops the water level about six or eight inches, which left all of our marginal plants exposed to the elements. Every single one died. Big disappointment. So I started researching and brainstorming ways to protect them the next year - maybe I could use burlap? Or bales of hay? Or a combination of both. Suddenly it hit me that what the plants needed was to remain covered by water - or ice and snow - and to do accomplish that, the pond needed to stay running.

We prepared ourselves for every possible disaster that first year. We had the de-icer and auxiliary pump in place in case we needed them. We crossed our fingers and left the pump running. And it was fine. We had one of the coldest winters on record here in Chicago that year - had we known that was coming, I don't think we would have had the guts to try it, but we did and it worked fine and we were relieved and pleased to see all our plants come back that next spring. And the water was crystal clear and the fish were all healthy. It was an experiment that ended well.

Here's a picture of the pond from that winter:

That was a long, cold winter. The waterfall is to the left in the photo. The water is flowing towards the top of the picture, over the negative edge into the rain exchange. The water is pumped back up to the bog where it feeds the waterfall. The bog will freeze over completely, too, but the water continues flowing. We enjoy seeing the interesting ice formations that are created each year and the lights on the waterfall are really pretty lighting up the ice at night.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

My instructions from the wife is to kill ALL snakes. She is deafly afraid of them. With that said, there is a relatively small amount of snakes on the property. Most of the time, I just chase them off into the woods and say nothing. Over a 23 year period, I have seen 1 snake swim across the lower pond. Unfortunately, my wife saw it too, and will never go into the ponds.

 

[Lisak1]

Here's my thought on the whole scenario - we're not talking about an endangered species. If I were to kill every pesky raccoon or chipmunk or mouse or rabbit or snake that I encountered in my life, I would make zero impact on the overall population. Animals become pests because of the rate at which they breed - there's just a lot of them. One snake in the yard would be an event. Daily sightings of 6 or more is a pest.

But honestly, I have chipmunks and rabbits that plague me - they eat the food I grow for myself, they eat the plants I grow to beautify my yard, they dig holes where I don't want them, they dig up my seeds and replant them other places - but I don't kill them. They aren't dangerous, they aren't in my house, they aren't killing my pets. So we live together like neighbors who despise each other. We both know the other is there, but we ignore one another for the most part. They're just doing what they need to do and I'm doing my best in spite of them. Now there's a raccoon that has been nosing around my pond... she and I may have a problem if she decides my fish look tasty!

 

[Nyboy]

@Mike in Vermont does Vermont have any venomous snakes? Here in NY we have 2 copperhead and timber rattler.