Sick Koi

[Tula]

Never heard of it. Who is the manufacturer?

The fish in the first photo has either Ich or Columnaris. I lean towards Ich because there are no large patches as is common with Columnaris. Formilin should be administered as a whole pond treatment. Be sure to turn off the UV if you have one.

I lean more towards Columnaris, as opposed to Ich. The following is a post dated from 2008 on Koiphen and the accompanying photo of the fish, looks like the OP's fish.

"I am sure it is Flavobacterium columnare. Early stages of colomnaris infection will be identified by the presence of small white or yellow areas on the Koi; these will result in the pruduction of excess muscus and later may give the Koi a hazy appearance.Later Fin/gill/mouth rot may appear as well."

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I lean more towards Columnaris, as opposed to Ich. The following is a post dated from 2008 on Koiphen and the accompanying photo of the fish, looks like the OP's fish.

"I am sure it is Flavobacterium columnare. Early stages of colomnaris infection will be identified by the presence of small white or yellow areas on the Koi; these will result in the pruduction of excess muscus and later may give the Koi a hazy appearance.Later Fin/gill/mouth rot may appear as well."

You could be right as the symptoms of the two (2) parasites are very similar. Diagnosing a heath issue in a fish correctly can be quite difficult and it becomes even more difficult when it is done from a photo or photos. A video of the sick fish would be immensely more informative but even that is not the same are personal hands-on inspection.
It is like asking your doctor to diagnose a personal health issue by email. Lots of luck!

 

[Mmathis]

And, of course, 3 koi [12" and 15"] in 700 gallons is not the best arrangement for good water conditions!

 

[Faebinder]

If you don't care about snails or scaleless fish like dojo loaches then KMnO4 can be used. Otherwise Malachite green is the way to go. You gotta be careful with dosing both.

 

[Ulli]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Since I'm new to having sick koi, I have no idea what KMn04 is. We don't have snails nor do we have scaleless fish. In regards to having 3 koi in a 700 gal. pond, we've had the pond for 12 years already and had up to 9 Koi in it with no health problems. We only had problems with a Heron taking them. We will try your suggestion of the Malachite Green. How much will the rocks in the pond discolor though and will it be permanent?

 

[Tula]

I wouldn't worry about the rocks, any discoloration should be temporary.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

How much will the rocks in the pond discolor though and will it be permanent?

Am I missing something here. Are we trying to save the rocks or the fish?

 

[Ulli]

Am I missing something here. Are we trying to save the rocks or the fish?

I guess it came across wrong. I just wanted to know what to expect. I read on another site that Columnaris is pretty much deadly and only antibiotics might be helpful. Malachite Green wouldn't touch it. Having said that, we are going to at least give it a try. Yesterday the 3 of them were somewhat active, but today they are not moving much and have their fins clamped again.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I guess it came across wrong. I just wanted to know what to expect. I read on another site that Columnaris is pretty much deadly and only antibiotics might be helpful. Malachite Green wouldn't touch it. Having said that, we are going to at least give it a try. Yesterday the 3 of them were somewhat active, but today they are not moving much and have their fins clamped again.

Parasites weaken the fish and open it up to secondary bacterial infections if not treated in time. You must first eliminate the parasite then begin whatever anti-bacterial is dictated.

 

[Mmathis]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Since I'm new to having sick koi, I have no idea what KMn04 is. We don't have snails nor do we have scaleless fish. In regards to having 3 koi in a 700 gal. pond, we've had the pond for 12 years already and had up to 9 Koi in it with no health problems. We only had problems with a Heron taking them. We will try your suggestion of the Malachite Green. How much will the rocks in the pond discolor though and will it be permanent?

Please don't take this the wrong way, regarding koi in a small pond. But NOW you do have a problem....sometimes it takes a while for it to catch up. But, as fish grow larger, this will change the dynamics of the pond's environment, as they are demanding more oxygen, as well as producing more waste products. So 3 fish that were fine last year, can suddenly be a burden to the bioload. And another thing, all ponds are different. Some people do very well with these conditions, and you are obviously one of the success stories. So I apologize for my insensitive, generalized comment before. You must have excellent filtration, which is what can make or break a pond. Can you post some pics of your pond for us? We really do like to see what others' pond's look like.

 

[Mmathis]

Has anyone mentioned scraping and scoping the fish? Do you have a microscope?

 

[Ulli]

No, I didn't take offense to your comment about the size of the pond. We had it designed by a company that has been in business for a long time and they recommended that we can place at least 6 to 9 Koi in the pond with no problem. I understand of course that the size of the Koi make a big difference. I am attaching photos of our pond set up. It consists of one larger waterfall, a small one, a stream and pond. We are running a biological filtration system. I'm not familiar with different kind of systems, but we were insured that this is superior to some other ones on the market. Here in Edmonton we don't have too many companies specializing in koi ponds designs nor do we have many qualified Koi Experts. We have Pet Smart stores, Big Al and an Aquarium Store that is also familiar with Koi. So for my husband and myself the last 12 years have been a learning experience.

 

[Ulli]

No, I didn't take offense to your comment about the size of the pond. We had it designed by a company that has been in business for a long time and they recommended that we can place at least 6 to 9 Koi in the pond with no problem. I understand of course that the size of the Koi make a big difference. I am attaching photos of our pond set up. It consists of one larger waterfall, a small one, a stream and pond. We are running a biological filtration system. I'm not familiar with different kind of systems, but we were insured that this is superior to some other ones on the market. Here in Edmonton we don't have too many companies specializing in koi ponds designs nor do we have many qualified Koi Experts. We have Pet Smart stores, Big Al and an Aquarium Store that is also familiar with Koi. So for my husband and myself the last 12 years have been a learning experience.

I have not found anyone that could take a look at the scrapings, if we were to be able to get some. I have a very cheap, small Kids Microscope, so I don't know if that would be of any help.

 

[Ulli]

We decided to transfer the sick Koi to a Quarantine Tub. Can anyone tell us if we should place all Koi into the tub, even though the other two don't look too sick, or just the one that has the coating on his scales? We will use the Ich-X and see how that works. It really weird though, he sometimes is quite active and sometimes just hangs around without moving and we think that he is dead already. How long would be have to keep them in the Ich-X solution and do we need to have filtration or just make sure that there is lots of oxygenation?

 

[Ulli]

The one Koi is covered with a white coating that is turning yelloish/brown. His one eye is covered already as well as one gill. I was just watching him and he was twitching and his mouth moved very rapidly. He then went on his side, but came back upright right away. Is there even hope??? I don't want him to suffer. Should we euthanize him?