sick fish!

[babyblue86]

top two pics are my waterfall and it is just a rubber made tub the other is a top view of the filter the brown stuff on the bottome that looks like dirt is actually the paper that comes on the acrylic. and the last is some of the plumbing.


thanks to whoever replys to my post. i try to soak up all the info i can... especially when it comes to fish :neutral:

 

[crsublette]

hmmm. Babyblue, your pictures are busted. just says "no permission" on my end.

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With as little information ya provided, too easy to misdiagnose the problem and there is a good chance that any advice given will cause more harm than good.

Ya really need to share the full test results, numbers and all. Give an exact description of everything going on including fish population and picture of your bio-filtering.

I would be careful with salting since there are medications that do not react well at all with salinity. Normally, salt is suggest in a quarantine tank situations, not for full pond treatments.

Oxygen deficiency is just a symptom with many, many different causes.

Be careful with water changes if you are doing big changes at once that could cause big pH swings which will stress your fish, making them even more sick. Tap water can add all sorts of bad stuff into the water such as chlorines, chloramines, ammonia, nitrates. It would be good to test your tap water as well. Petsmart is a store that can test your water for ya.

Koiguy has written an excellent thread, Practical Pond Fish Medicine

 

[capewind]

Late reading, and only scan read, so may have missed some important info, so if this has already been asked/answered, will appologize in advance.

1000 gallon INDOOR pond, with 3500 gph filtration through bio balls only?

Is there a LOT of natural light, or is it in a basement (I have a 750 gallon quarantine pond in the basement, which DOES have challenges over an outside pond)

Exactly what were your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph readings?

How many fish, and at what size?

 

[Fishylove]

Hi cape
He has 9 koi and a Goldie and its in the basement lots of challenges for sure. He does have a pressurized bio filter with bio balls and a medium filter pad that he cleans when the water gets murky. I've told him he needs to get a pre filter and really not to touch the bio filter as it could destroy the good guys. No plants, he needs to get those,even if it takes a grow light. I'm not really familiar with basement ponds, so what I told him above is really all I could offer.
I'm not professing to know the answers but he needs to do something quickly or he'll loose another. I believe him cleaning the bio pads hasn't helped anything

 

[crsublette]

Hmmm, post#30 he's describing a gravity flow filter, not a pressurized.

With the pond size he describes, sounds like a 800 gallon pond with 9 koi and a goldfish, which I assume is a comet type. Don't know the fish size and feeding schedule, which can make a huge difference.

IF it is a bio-filter failure, then he can get some ammonia binder chemical to make the ammonia safe until he builds a proper bio-filter.

IF it is a bio-filter failure and his tap water has high pH, then water changes will make ammonia more toxic causing more troubles to the fish.

Don't see how plants would help to fix his problem. Plants just feed on nitrates, phosphates, put out aglutinins, might have some beneficial bacteria on the roots, and do a few other things. It really takes extremely high nitrates to retard nitrifying bacteria, which leads to fish problems, but I have read some tap water have very high nitrates, another reason why water changes can be harmful.

Only should recommend water changes after ya know all of the facts, otherwise likely causing more fish to die.

The exact test results of both pond water and tap water really need to be known.

A picture of the ill fish would help as well.

 

[capewind]

Thanks Fishy, I need to go back and read the whole thing again... My BIG questions remaining is just how big are those 9 koi? and all the test results on the water. Even with grow lights, which we have (4, 48" glow light bulbs), I cant get squat for plants to even live in one of the filters (does an ivy count? LOL).

Unless I misunderstood, it didnt sound like the filters had been running long? So I am thinking along the lines of a serious ammonia spike (been there/done that/paid the price). We are really pushing the limits with our QT pond. Like I said, it is 750, and we have 11 fish in it. Smallest is about 13", largest is 24"... average fish is 16-18"... wayyy too many. We are able to pull it off thanks to being an ESTABLISHED system, and have FOUR filters on it. Two are pressurized canisters, and two are home made bio systems (one is actually an old wet dry system from a marine aquarium).

I understood he was doing water changes, and that is a must for us (25% about 2x month, except when they spawned LOL). Is he using some form of a de-chlorination product for the fresh water he is adding (our replacement water comes from our outside pond)? I am not a big salt fan, so not concerned with that... He also needs to be VERY careful about over feeding in such a small area, as that will play havic with the water quality too...

Another question coming to mind, is does he have a lot of BROWN algae on the walls of the pond? Some cant be helped... and much worse, WHITE algae/mold? Yet another question is HOW damp is the basement... thinking mold again...

Sunlight is our friend with our outside ponds, a damp, dark basement can be "challenging"... not impossible to do, but this is not the place to bend too many rules and get away with it, without paying a LOT of attention to all the variables...

 

[crsublette]

Cape, ya should look into "fuildized bio-filters" or trickle towers or shower towers. A single, properly built one, will replace all of your bio-filters, except an extra mechanical filter prior to these types are suggested. These fancy, DIY, bio-filters are extremely effective, space saving, low to zero maintenance (depending on how its built), and were created specifically for extremely high fish populations in small containers.

 

[capewind]

Thanks The QT's filters are mostly spare parts.... The 2 canisters were from our old pond, and the two home made bios were simple improvisions of spare parts... aka the 36" x 12' x 12" wet drive system from our old 180 gallon marine/reef tank, and the other is made out of a large tote. I know hubby has been looking for a "food grade 55 gallon barrel" but hasnt gotten far with that yet...

 

[babyblue86]

thanks for all your responses. ummm of the nine koi the average length is probably 9 inches. i tested my water last night and my nitrates are pretty high and my water hardness is high also. both of which is out of the ordinary. i accidently posted my pics and set them to private lol ooops. i have been in the hobby only a year and my pond still needs alot of work due to money and experience. everytime i learn something new i do my best to change it as soon as possible. im going to post my pics again. let me know if you can see them. they are also posted earlier in this thread once i changed the setting they showed up

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2289-picture-825/



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2287-picture-823/



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2286-picture-822/



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2286-picture-822/

 

[babyblue86]

the brown on the bottom of the second pic is not dirt it is the paper backing left on the acrylic. i built the filter myself out of 6mm acylic

 

[capewind]

Now of us are born with all the answers, we all start somewhere

Not to sound like a broken record, but in order for anyone to offer you any sound advice, we really need to know the results of all the water tests... EXACT NUMBERS... Each test result has a meaning, but in addition, ALL of the results together tell us exactly what the water is doing.

So Specifically... what were the test results of Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and PH... the other tests have their places, most definately, but the relationship between these 4 tests are super important. NO ONE can HELP without this info.

 

[capewind]

Also, opinions will vary, but IMO, you ARE over populated for your pond size.

 

[Fishylove]

Man, too bad you don't live closer to me, we can get our hands on three barrels right now, that's what I have now. Your filter from the marine aquarium sounds really cool. My first one I made out of a 50 gal trash can hey it worked lol.
Never accured to me about mold that's not good at all. Is there a big difference between having a pond indoors and an aquarium? I've not had either.

 

[babyblue86]

sorrry i dont have the exact numbers all i have is the test strips. the two things i bottom didnt give me any numbers just colors. man now i realize i dont know as much as i thought haha.

 

[Fishylove]

It's ok blue, you'll get there Cape is it possible to that he has too high of a flow going through the filter? With having two pumps?