Shutting down pump to my bio-filter. How will it effect the good bacteria?

[Lisak1]

This would run counter to everything said about good bacteria and common sense so it cannot be correct.

Common sense? I thought we were talking science? I was proposing that perhaps the hypothesis was wrong. Sometimes the things we assume are true can send us off in the wrong direction from the get-go. Mucky said "there seems to be a unanimous consensus" - consensus based on what?

I don't use a bio-filter on my pond so I haven't really paid much attention to how they work. Is there research that shows the good bacteria dies off if the pump stops pumping? And how long it takes for complete die-off to happen? My "common sense" would tell me that environment would stay oxygenated for quite some time without an influx of water (as long as the filtration material stays wet at least) - but that could easily be an incorrect assumption.

A fast google search gave me answers ranging from instantly to 45 minutes to 5 hours to overnight. Is there no single answer based on actual research? Or is it just because it's what everyone says?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

A fast google search gave me answers ranging from instantly to 45 minutes to 5 hours to overnight. Is there no single answer based on actual research? Or is it just because it's what everyone says?

The reason there is no clear answer is because no situation is exactly the same. The bacteria in question consume oxygen, and the more prolific the colony is in a bio-filter, the faster they will consume the limited amount of oxygen available. How much oxygen is still available to get to the bacteria depends on the bio-filter design itself. This is where a shower type bio-filter with it's media exposed to the open air would have an advantage over bio-filters where the media is completely submerged, providing the shower filter media didn't completely dry up. In any case, any of this bacteria sealed in an airtight container (or bottle) would certainly fair the worst.
Whether these oxygen dependent bacteria all die or just go dormant is another question that I don't have a clear answer to myself, but it doesn't really mater in regard to the bottled bacteria question, because if they do die, then the bacteria in the bottle will definitely all be dead, but if they just go dormant (which I believe is closer to the truth), then that would mean the need for adding a few dormant bacteria in a bottle would be totally unnecessary since these bacteria are so prolific they are basically everywhere all the time in a dormant state waiting for just the right conditions to re-activate and come back to life and start doing their thing. Thus again exposing the lack of need for a few more dormant bacteria in a bottle.

An experiment that I already mentioned that you can do at home supports the dormant bacteria hypothesis. Take some of your active mature bio-media and put it in a sealed (air tight) bag or container, smell it and remember what it smells like. It should have a fresh, clean, light fishy smell. This is what a good aerobic (oxygen loving) bacteria colony smells like. Now leave it in that sealed bag or container for 24-48 hours at room temp, then open the bag and take another whiff. What do you smell? It should smell awful. It will have that septic smell, H2S, and methane. This is the smell that anaerobic bacteria (the kind of bacteria that thrive and reproduce in the absence of oxygen) produce.
So the question comes up, where did these anaerobic bacteria come from? Certainly not from a magic bottle!

 

[Mucky_Waters]

One consideration that might lend some credit to this whole matter... and this is just a wild guess... In most species when they interbreed for too long, the population gets weak, but adding in new genes helps re-strengthen the species and allow them to grow stronger. Perhaps bacteria is the same way, and adding a bottle introduces new genes that strengthens the colony and helps them grow faster? Again,[U][B] just a wild guess[/B][/U].

That's a wild guess alright. LOL
Since bacteria generally reproduce asexually that kind of interbreeding doesn't occur.
Nice try though.

 

[dieselplower]

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

interesting article

 

[Mucky_Waters]

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

interesting article

Interesting, but unfortunately exposes a lack of integrity when it ends by plugging another Bacteria in a bottle miracle product who, like Dr. Tim's miracle solution, claims to be the one and only ones to have discovered a process of containing viable nitrifying bacteria in a bottle. I think all these bacteria in a bottle dealers all claim there are the only ones to have perfected a way of containing viable bacteria in a bottle.
And what's with the root URL http://bioconlabs.com/ where that article is located. Bioconlabs doesn't seem to even be a real web site, it's just a blank template site.

 

[dieselplower]

Who cares if they are trying to sell something if the info is good? I'm not even saying the info is all true, since there are no sources etc, but it's better than a lot of the opinion etc I have read so far.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Who cares if they are trying to sell something if the info is good? I'm not even saying the info is all true, since there are no sources etc, but it's better than a lot of the opinion etc I have read so far.

Actually I agreed it was interesting, However it's a little known fact that companies selling products tend to be motivated to slant the facts a certain way, and exaggerate claims about their products. Its what they call a "Marketing Strategy" designed to increase sales.
Anyway, I tend to believe that Fritz company at least tries to put live bacteria in their bottles, because they admit on that page that "Sometimes their solution may turn dark brown or black and smell like rotten eggs", which is conclusive evidence that anaerobic (H2S producing) bacteria is active in their bottles, which is what you would expect in an oxygen free environment, just as I stated earlier. Aerobic nitrafiying bacteria do not produce H2S as a byproduct.

BTW, I don't think we have heard what your "opinion" is on this subject yet DP?

 

[JohnHuff]

Actually I agreed it was interesting, However it's a little known fact that companies selling products tend to be motivated to slant the facts a certain way, and exaggerate claims about their products. Its what they call a "Marketing Strategy" designed to increase sales.

You don't say!

Just in case it wasn't clear enough

 

[dieselplower]

[QUOTE="Mucky

BTW, I don't think we have heard what your "opinion" is on this subject yet DP?[/QUOTE]

My opinion is that when they dry out they die so yes turning off the water flow would be bad.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

My opinion is that when they dry out they die so yes turning off the water flow would be bad.

Are you 100% committed to that opinion? Or could it be swayed by peer pressure within the forum community? After all, there are some people who buy powdered (dry) and tablet bacteria boosters too and swear by it.

How about in a bottle, do you think they would die in a sealed bottle, or are you of the opinion that they are able to hold their breath?
I don't blame you for steering clear of that one, it's a touchy one.

 

[dieselplower]

Are you 100% committed to that opinion? Or could it be swayed by peer pressure within the forum community? After all, there are some people who buy powdered (dry) and tablet bacteria boosters too and swear by it.

How about in a bottle, do you think they would die in a sealed bottle, or are you of the opinion that they are able to hold their breath?
I don't blame you for steering clear of that one, it's a touchy one.

Well since I have not done any tests myself, no I am not 100% committted. I have based my opinion of what I have read from sources I consider to be reliable. As far as living in a sealed bottle... I have no idea. I imagine they would survice for a while until the oxygen was depleted, and then go dormant, or die. No clue really.

 

[JohnHuff]

Randy, turns out what I learned in elementary school is no longer correct. Google bacteria and dormancy. Turns out bacteria can be dormant. However, I would still need to see some independent studies from the sellers to accept that their kind of bacteria stays dormant. Not that hard really for people peddling this stuff. All they need to do is to culture the contents of their bottle in a sterile environment, and no need even to do gas chromatography or DNA testing just basic bacteria testing would do.

 

[Dave 54]

Are you 100% committed to that opinion? Or could it be swayed by peer pressure within the forum community? After all, there are some people who buy powdered (dry) and tablet bacteria boosters too and swear by it.

How about in a bottle, do you think they would die in a sealed bottle, or are you of the opinion that they are able to hold their breath?
I don't blame you for steering clear of that one, it's a touchy one.

I recall in another thread about bacteria it was proven that even dechlorinated water would harm bacteria only washing off the surface you hosed down , its survived deep space intense heat and drying out

 

[JohnHuff]

I recall in another thread about bacteria it was proven that even dechlorinated water would harm bacteria only washing off the surface you hosed down , its survived deep space intense heat and drying out

I recall in another thread that once the biofilm has formed, the bacteria can withstand even chlorinated water.

 

[Dave 54]

I recall in another thread that once the biofilm has formed, the bacteria can withstand even chlorinated water.

http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=191

Dave