"RULES OF THUMB" FOR WATERFALLS , STREAMS?

[sissy]

no rocks on the bottom to hard to keep clean ..I like easy way out

 

[Mmathis]

Wow, lots of useful ideas to think about! Thanks, all!

As I look over my area & my design, I was already sort of thinking that "width" would be my friend as I'll be able to make a nice berm where MICKEY'S head & ears are (LOL!). Otherwise, there would be a lot of open space that I'd have to contain to make it work for the turts. A nice wide berm area behind would give me lots of planting area, too, as well as be a pretty backdrop and space for my fall or stream.

Gordy -- I can go a little bigger with my proposed space. I was guesstimating I might be able to go back about 4' from the back edge of the pond to where the perimeter boundary will be. Does 4' sound like enough front-to-back depth to create a fall or stream? Height will only be limited by what looks best and the laws of gravity...

 

[Catfishnut]

I don't think that this should be a consideration for a stream, however. In a stream, you want rocks and such for the aesthetic appeal, otherwise it would just look like a gutter. I can see the point for the bottom of the pond, it would be just the same as an old dam on a stream, it would eventually sediment in and build up garbage at the bottom. Cleaning that would be a task. I don't think many folks look at the bottom of the pond beyond the owner anyway. It's dark and pretty much hidden, why put rocks on it? Except for maybe a few large decorative ones, but not entire bottom cover.

Gordy

 

[chmotz]

Thanks for your reply.Boy lots to think about huh.What about feeding goldfish? If you don't feed them what do they eat?

 

[Mmathis]

WATERBUG -- Cool idea for the "forced perspective" idea, though sounds too complicated for me at this time -- maybe NEXT pond I think you sort of hit on something when you mentioned "miniaturizing."

BTW, what are the steps for "quoting" on the forum? Getting tired of scrolling back & forth, trying to remember how to spell names and who said what....

 

[sissy]

In the winter or colder weather below 50 pond temp they get wheat germ and during the warm weather they get regular fish food .I have koi and goldfish and they both eat koi food .With goldfish you can buy goldfish food I would get sticks not pellets .Pellets sink and can cause problems with water quality .I use a pool net to keep the bottom of the pond free of fish poop and other gunk .

 

[Mmathis]

GORDY -- looked at the photos, but on iPhone and couldn't enlarge First photo had date March '53 & looked like an old piece of film. No people in any shots (well, one maybe). My guess? Either REALLY good miniatures, everyone abducted by aliens, or scenes taken from TWILIGHT ZONE episodes....

 

[Catfishnut]

Gordy -- I can go a little bigger with my proposed space. I was guesstimating I might be able to go back about 4' from the back edge of the pond to where the perimeter boundary will be. Does 4' sound like enough front-to-back depth to create a fall or stream? Height will only be limited by what looks best and the laws of gravity...

M,

Sure, that sounds like plenty of space for a short stream and a waterfall at the end, dropping into the pond. Could even make it into more of a "babbling brook" instead of a stream. You could design the entry (water inlet) to appear like an artesian spring, then have it overflow the edges of a shallow pool and cascade down over some rocks and take a short stream then drop into the pond from a few inches to a foot above. With the spring atop and the waterfall at the bottom, you should have at least a couple feet to design a mini-stream (I would make it wide, somewhat deep and give it a slight curve for more of a realistic dsiplay). Like Waterbug stated, you can make a miniature setting look much larger and virtually realistic with the right lighting and plants and rocks and contours.

The Niobrara River in Nebraska is an excellent example of this. The springs that feed the river along its course are not at all large. They are mostly all very deminutive. Just little trickles like running your garden hose in your back yard. A few areas have tributaries consisting of many springs which converge. By the time their total sum reaches the cliffs at the river, they have some definite water flow. The most exhilarating shower and nearly the coldest doggone shower I have ever taken! It was damn cold! 95-100° air temperature and the water was 48-54°. That's a shock, it wil wake you up for certain.

The point is, springs and waterfalls in nature are not always very large. Neither are very many streams, at least not at their origins anyway. So you could create a stream and waterfall scene and be perfectly in line with nature's own design very easily. It doesn't have to be large (we don't need Niagara Falls or Bridal Veil Falls in the pond).

For a stream bed, I would use a rule from plumbing. The slope of the stream should not be any less than 1/8" per foot and not more than 1/2" per foot. Somewhere in that range of gradient should be perfect. (I mean that within one foot of the stream flow, the stream bed should drop somewhere between 1/8" to 1/2"). That slope can vary above and below these values for very short runs, but the the overall gradient ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood. If you get towards 1" of gradient, your stream water will be running quite fast downhill. That makes good action for any rapids and works good for aeration, but if you go beyond that 1", you might as well be discussing a waterfall of some sort.

There is probably a better math formula for pond streams than what I am stating here, but I know that I am pretty close to the ballpark.

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

GORDY -- looked at the photos, but on iPhone and couldn't enlarge First photo had date March '53 & looked like an old piece of film. No people in any shots (well, one maybe). My guess? Either REALLY good miniatures, everyone abducted by aliens, or scenes taken from TWILIGHT ZONE episodes....

You got there with the "Really Good Miniatures". This guy named Michael Paul Smith builds all of the cars, buildings and scenery himself. They are all models that he built and painted. He then sets up the town (as a model) and the trees (also models) and then he takes pictures of everything.

Looks pretty doggone realistic, don't you think?

I think it is amazing myself.

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

M,

Quoting will seem very simple after you play around with it a bit. Let me show you.

I quoted you from the post where you asked this question. You made a comment to Waterbug first and then you asked the question about quotes.

To quote your entire post, I clicked on the radio button "QUOTE" below and to the right of your post. This takes your words only (in most cases) and starts a reply from me to your thread, just like this reply.

WATERBUG -- Cool idea for the "forced perspective" idea, though sounds too complicated for me at this time -- maybe NEXT pond I think you sort of hit on something when you mentioned "miniaturizing."

Now, I didn't have a reason to respond to your response to Waterbug here. But, I kept it included to show you something. I could have taken my mouse, clicked and dragged my mose to highlighted the whole dialog above from your intial post and right clicked and selected DELETE. If I had down that, then your comment/question below would have been the only item from you contained in my quote and I could have responded directly to that alone.

Now, since I have your entire post quoted, I may have desired to respond to the part above first and the part below, last and separately.
I can simply do this...

At the last word in your above statement to Waterbug, I type: /quote and enclose it in the solid (square) brackets. That denotes the end of your quotation. I can respond to the first part directly afterwards, as I am doing now.

Each quotation needs a header and a footer (a quote/unquote) signification. By typing /quote at the end of your first paragraph, I separated your entire post into two parts, but the second part has no opening "quote" anymore. That was nullified when I typed /quote at the end of the first paragraph. So, in order to make the next paragraph of yours back into a proper quote, I must go up to the very beginning of my entire response and copy this: quote name='Mmathis' timestamp='1322875228' post='99347' I have to include the square brackets on the ends and then paste it at the start of your next paragraph (as I did directly below).

BTW, what are the steps for "quoting" on the forum? Getting tired of scrolling back & forth, trying to remember how to spell names and who said what....

I couldn't type in the square brackets for this explanation because the forum ketpt thinking of them as more quotations.

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

M,

Now say you are cruising along, reading and think you want to respond to multiple people (quote multiple people) the radio button at the bottom right side of those peoples post's that states "MULTI-QUOTE" allows you to do this. You have to click on this button for each post, except the last one. Then you have to click on the single QUOTE radio button to wrap it up. You have to use the single quote button otherwise the forum system will think that you are going to continue to quote others.

So, you can quote people on and on. But, at the last person you want to quote you have to click on the single QUOTE radio button. This informs the sytem that you are done quoting and this fellow or gal is the last person whomn you desire to quote.

It is really simple, just play around with it a couple of times. If you make a mistake and end up with a mess, don't worry, everyone understands. It isn't going to harm anything (just don't write too much in your quotes right off the bat). If you mess up, you might have to retype everything you just said. It won't screw anything up, but it might leave you a little angry if you spent a lot of time with a response.

Remember this. Cut and paste and MS Word is your little buffer (buddy). You can copy and paste stuff in MS Word and then work on your dialog offline there if needed.

Just go ahead and play around, we'll all know what you're doing if you screw up along the way, but you know you won't hurt anything. We'll just razz you about it for several years! LOL Ha, just kidding.

Gordy

 

[Waterbug]

Streams require no slope. A level box 1 mile long and 2" deep. Remove the side on one end and pour water into the other end. The water will flow out the open end.

The Mississippi drops an average of 1 inch per 761 feet. And that's the average, most of it is dead flat.

chmotz, I mortar rocks in place. I don't like the look of liner for a natural pond. The mortar makes cleaning as easy as liner.

 

[Mmathis]

GORDY -- LOL!! Thanks for the "quote" lesson! Don't have time right now [just got hubby back home following a hip replacement], but will try it later. Most of my reading & posting I do on the iPhone, and some procedures are different from a regular computer. We'll see....

WATERBUG -- you work with faux rocks, don't you? Any experience with mix-ins such as tiny styrofoam balls, etc. to reduce weight? And what about hypertufa? Was reading recipes that included stuff like styrofoam (like in bean bag refills), perlite, or peat [with hypertufa], but wondered if adding things to your mix would weaken it [significantly].

 

[taherrmann4]

Mmathis I have three different streams one is about 25' long and 3' wide but once you put the rocks in it narrows it down to about 18" in most places. Then there is another one that is more of a very slow moving stream, almost like a pool. The main one is on a berm that is about 5 tall, the stream/falls come off that and are about 15' long, you can take a look at my pics under my signature to visually get an idea. When you build your falls/ stream be sure to go deep enough as Larkin has stated as once you add rocks and plants it greatly reduces the width and depth of your stream or falls. Also decide if you want it to fall into a pool of water or onto rocks, mine does both there are several small falls then a big one that falls onto rocks and the last one into the pond which is just water. I get the noise effect and also the aeration affect so I kill two birds with one stone so to speak. You will get algae in your stream or falls but it is easy to pick off a few minutes a week and its good for the garden.

 

[sissy]

I use perlite in my cement mix and peat .I made fake rocks .I use a box and put plastic bags in to make the general outside rock shape and then plastic liner over that and then mix cement fiberglass fibers and water mix it well and start putting it inside to form the hollowed out rock .I got it from you tube they have a great step by step .The perlite and peat I use to make planters