Rocks on bottom?

[brokensword]

Bagsmom, Great video! Thank you for posting

On the topic of adding rocks, I recently had a horrible problem with inexplicably high pH of 8.5 in an aquarium. Turns out, it was the gravel I was using, which had a high concentration of marble in it. Marble hardens the water and can cause the pH to spike. From now on, before adding rocks to any fish inhabited water, I will test them first by leaving them in water overnight to see if that changes the parameters. Just a thought.

with a pond, this can have a small effect (larger, obviously if you have a thick layer and the rocks dissolve and add to the calcium concentration) but unless your pond is 'large aquarium' size, shouldn't be a big hit. Still good to know what you DO have, if it might affect your pH. But as we stress here, it's not the pH number so much but keeping one stable.

Btw, don't you have a sister named Marger?

 

[WaterGardener]

A pH of 8.5 is not necessarily high. It would depend on the type of fish you have, as some are pretty particular about pH. Most are not, as long as it is stable and not jumping around, as brokensword said.

 

[Lisarita]

Hi brokensword
Love your paradise greenhouse garden. Very inspiring.

No sister by that name, at least that I know of!

 

[Lisarita]

A pH of 8.5 is not necessarily high. It would depend on the type of fish you have, as some are pretty particular about pH. Most are not, as long as it is stable and not jumping around, as brokensword said.

Agreed Water Gardener, I was planning on using a bunch of those stones in a small water garden in the back and have rethought that.

I have read that high pH can be a problem when temperatures get warm because it facilitates ammonia spikes, but how warm does the water have to get?

 

[WaterGardener]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

If you have an ammonia problem, the ammonia would be more toxic at a high pH than at a low pH.

Temperature is not a relevant factor. It doesn't affect pH as far as I know. But of course the goal is to always have zero ammonia.

Many of us keep our pH at 8.2 or 8.3 because that is where the KH is adequate enough to prevent a pH crash. My filters work best with a KH at least 200 ppm, and that raises the pH to the level where it is.

It's not so much that we want the pH at that number, but we want the KH high so we don't kill the beneficial bacteria and our fish with a sudden drop in pH.

The high KH (alkalinity) means the pH will be steady and it buffers the acid produced in the system from the nitrogen cycle.

To me, KH is probably the most important thing to test for.

I would not hesitate to use those rocks. That pH is not too high for pond fish.

 

[brokensword]

Hi brokensword
Love your paradise greenhouse garden. Very inspiring.

No sister by that name, at least that I know of!

never heard of margerita? I'm flammer ghasted!

 

[Corgi Mom]

I am in the no rock group. My pond has filtration issues and the skimmer just didn't cut it. It was always a battle to get clear water. After 14 years the pendulum swung so far in the other direction I could not keep my pump running more than 15 minutes before the skimmer completely clogged with algae. I had to have all the gravel removed. We sucked up tons of black muck which stunk to high heaven. Pretty good compost though! I love the look of gravel but it did not work for me. The liner gets covered with organic matter anyway so you don't really notice it. MUCH better now. My suggestion is to try just a little on the bottom and see what happens. If it doesn't work, then you won't have a nightmare on your hands and can pull it up a lot easier.

 

[WaterGardener]

That lovely smell is hydrogen sulfide. A toxic, potentially deadly, and very flammable gas.

It builds up in the muck on the bottom of ponds and is released when the muck is disturbed.

 

[Lisarita]

never heard of margerita? I'm flammer ghasted!

Oh dear. Tsk tsk. Now at least I’ll be ready next time someone tries that one.

 

[Corgi Mom]

That lovely smell is hydrogen sulfide. A toxic, potentially deadly, and very flammable gas.

It builds up in the muck on the bottom of ponds and is released when the muck is disturbed.

It certainly smelled pretty toxic. I knew it wasn't good. Glad I got it out of there.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

My pond is roughly 25' x 35', and I hand-laid the entire thing with rocks. Most are 4" to maybe 8", some are closer to 12" and largest around 24". No complaints, though I probably should have put washed 57's or a smaller pebble stone on the floor. Still doable as it can be placed on top of what's there now. Reason is it's difficult to walk in right now if needed.

Shallow ends, like 2' or less, you can pretty much see everything. Getting around 3' and deeper, even with "clear" water, it'll depend on how much light is reaching through, algae and plant growth, etc.. On mine, I can see about 4' to 6' down under ideal conditions.

As far as seeing fish, I have minnows everywhere, with largest ones roughly 4" long. I can stand there and stare for 5 minutes and not see anything larger than 1/4", as the larger ones are hiding in the gaps. But once in awhile, they'll emerge and are visible. During spawnning and after eggs hatch, they are everywhere but with natural colors, can blend right in but easier to see if they swim over lighter colors like greenery from plants, whiter rocks, etc.. Bright colored fish like koi, goldfish, etc., are easier to see in virtually opaque water if near the surface, but they get big and smaller fish can be eaten, as can tadpoles, etc.. I purposely stuck with fathead minnows so as to not keep the frogs away. Once/if frogs find the pond, and it's habitable, they'll move in and breed which I now love after having a season of it. Guessing over a thousand tadpoles and a few hundred frogs grew up in it last season. Also love hearing the calls throughout the year. Just something to consider.

I personally like the look of river rocks (washed #57's) on the shallow ends as it has a very natural and appealing aesthetic, but small fish will blend in, as will tadpoles and even a submerged frog.

After my minnow population exploded, so did the underwater plant growth, which slowly covered most of the rocks but water is filtered and stays clear. Entire pond is clay, so no liner as it doesn't leak. Rocks were placed on clay, and doubled up in some areas, and all rocks were fitted akin to a puzzle.

Anyhow, do what you like, as you'll have to look at it.

 

[Music Mamma]

Will the lack of rock, larger gravel have an effect on the sun beating down through water and creating more wear/tear on liner? I certainly have tried the rock and it's a mess!! We do have a skimmer so that helps greatly with debris accumulation. Just concerned about the liner longevity. Thanks.

 

[Mmathis]

Will the lack of rock, larger gravel have an effect on the sun beating down through water and creating more wear/tear on liner? I certainly have tried the rock and it's a mess!! We do have a skimmer so that helps greatly with debris accumulation. Just concerned about the liner longevity. Thanks.

If I understand your question, no, the lack of a substrate should not have an effect on the life span of your liner. What kind of liner do you have?

 

[GBBUDD]

UV IS THE ENEMY OF RUBBER SO I BEILIVE THE ANSWER IS DEPENDANT ON YOUR LOCATION AND HOW MUCH WATER THE SUN IS HAVING TO PENITRATE

 

[Hound Heaven]

Another option might be using shade cloth above the pond. It can block up to 90% of the uv light. I used it in Arizona and it lasted for years and years - very durable stuff.