Right discussion board?

[Querorz]

Thanks Colleen. I don't seriously think i will be able to find that river clay. Because there aren't any manmade lakes or ponds here. We have some, but rare... The reason i am building this lake is fishing. So, yeah. I will be stocking natural fish.

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
What about
A think layer of sand and then the liner then another thick layer of sand or rock base to protect the liner.

i know Istanbul is very sanding even desert looking is there a lot of rock available.?

And if you are going to use liner I take it it will have to be sealed/seamed together on site.
I know they can make some wide liner but how wide can they actually get.
You will have to contact a liner company and get info on that also.

I think this is another hurdle you will need to find out about
I am thinking a liner anywhere near this size and getting it installed is going to be very expensive.
It is not like you will just be able to roll it out and spread it across it will take a lot of man power or tied to a Front loader to get this spread out a placed.
I just bough a small piece or liner 15' X 22' 4 mil and it was just over $300.00 I can only imagine what the price of the liner you are going to need.

Ruben

 

[callingcolleen1]

If you build the lake very close to a natural stream or river, the area may already have lots of natural clay built up over time from the stream of river. Also you can look around for people in your area that sell clay or have clay that you could perhaps extract. Surely there must be some clay hiding somewhere there in Constantinople?

I would use as many natural resources as possible. Utilize the water from natural creek or stream to fill your lake, that way water won't be so much of an issue. In your area you could plant cyprus reeds (unbrella palm and water papyrus)I think they may be already naturalized in your area. These plants will do a very good job cleaning lake once they are well established. You won't need to change the water just keep adding water and use water from lake to water plants. I have three garden ponds that run all together and the total water volume 3500 gallons I would say. I have very very large sedges and they were planted in river clay 20 years ago and the clay is now all gone and plant is very large. I never change my water as my pond is very natural and minicks nature quite well. I have a large population of aquatic bugs and snails that also help keep pond clean. Of all the people on this forum, I think I am the only one who never changes my pond water, I only add water every week. been doing it this way for 20+ years now and my koi are over 20 years old. I run my pond in accordance with nature, and I just clean the pond filters. This does not work for everybody though, some people have ponds that are over stocked with fish and not enough mature sedges to clean pond properly.

I think your lake will be large enough to minick nature once the sedges are well established. Until then, only stock a minimal amount fish, and everything should be fine. Let me know how things are going. It will be so nice to see the lake you are going to build!

Good Luck!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Sand will not do the job of clay, in no way, shape or form. Only clay will work to hold the water and stop leakage. No use spending money on a massive pond liner, it would not work for such large volume of water, only clay will hold that amount of water. Here they used very cheap liner, would not even call it a liner, it was more of a "tarp type material" as the clay does the real job of holding that volume of water. I am far from an expert on this subject, but I have seen the material they used here in town to construct the man made lake at Strathcona park here where I live. That little lake was done very well and still holds the water some 30 years later. They did choose a site located right next to the creek, and there was a good base of clay there already before they built the little man made lake.

 

[Querorz]

I wrote a full page of stuff and then i lost them all. So, i will write less this time. Sorry guys .

First of all, since i confused lenght units i made a mistake. My lake is gonna be 1/2 acres, not 2 acres. Colleen do you still think that i don't need liner? I don't know how to find clay. I gotta ask it.

Colleen i have to agree on liner issue with Sissy and Ruben. In my city ( it's Gaziantep, not Istanbul btw) our soil is the most draining kind of soil colleen. So we have to make sure there is no leakage. And also, water is so precious for me. So , i think a liner layer under the clay will be necessary. What do you say?

I will check those plants you recommended me. I hope we have them.


Thanks for great photos by the way. So beautiful...

 

[sissy]

most ponds use betonite clay and it is not cheap for a bag.How do they seal the natural ponds they are building there maybe you can ask

 

[callingcolleen1]

Yes for sure use a liner, but a liner can only hold the pressure of so much water before it stretches out and busts. That is why clay is necessary to use for the long term. There are a lot of very good liners out there but it may be very hard to find a liner that big, and then the price may be very very high. Half a acre still quite big. I would use packed clay on bottom for sure and liner, then rocks. You could look into a layer of clay over the liner as well if necessary, just to be safe. Two acre lake would need mostly clay for sure.

Sissy the type of clay needed to seal the bottom would be good old fashion river clay, the type that looks like muck, sticks like muck, and sucks your shoe into the river bottom when you step on it! Ha ha ha. Rivers and lakes hold the water because they have a natural clay bottom. You can find clams down by the river here, used to go get them, they like to slither in the clay and leave a trail for me to find them!
Very large man made ponds or small lakes, are made with real cheap tarp type liner around here, not the good stuff we use in our ponds, and tons of clay! My guess is that they use the cheap liner cause with a small lake the liner would really slip after just a few short years or bust from the pressure of tons of water, or both.

 

[callingcolleen1]

OK, I just had a "mind flash"! Querorz, if no clay available, why don't you use water cannel liner? Look into how they build water channels in your area, see how they stop the leakage and maybe use the materials available that you have locally? That may be the cheapest route, to use similar materials available locally, and make your lake with that. If it holds water in a channel it may hold water in small lake. At the very least, you all gather information and knowledge to further you along on your lake quest.

 

[Waterbug]

I haven't been following this discussion too closely so don't know the details...Liner and clay application are defined by the soil. For example, each liner (geo textile) manufacturer will define how their liner should be installed for various soils and applications. I think it would be really expensive to just kind of think this or that without any info on the soil, water table, etc. The same with whether or not clay is needed or not, and the type of clay. I mean sure, you could buy $5000-$10000 worth of bentonite clay from wherever and dump it into a hole and think that will do something. Seems like a needless risk to me. For a few hundred dollars of soil testing you could save thousands and get the pond you want.

If it's a low spot that is normally swampy then sure, you can just wing it, dig it out and probably have a fine fishing pond, no liner, clay, etc. Virtually all fishing ponds in the US are built that way, just a hole. The high tech solutions, which are expensive, are normally reserved for when actually needed.

 

[Querorz]

Colleen i am so sorry about that but they use cement for all water channels here. What do you think about placing cement before soil? Is it gonna be too expensive?

I found bentonite clay being sold in my country but in description it says it is for food industry use(for some process of wine production especially) .

Which soil should i test Waterbug? I don't even have a sample about it. Actually i am sure i should talk to some local engineers about my project and hear what they will suggest. The problem is , i am not in my hometown right now. I need to make a deep investigation about materials.

 

[callingcolleen1]

If you goggle "how to build a fishing lake" lots of things come up. There was this site on the Hub Pages of a small fishing lake that was built in the 1960's and how the lake is doing today. They discuss options such as "rock bottom" or clay bottom" they do say clay bottom the best. Like I said before, build this lake very close to the lowest level of the ground, like next to a stream, as the water from uphill will help refill the lake, and the closer to "sea level" (or below sea level) you get, you may find large natural deposits of clay already there, as clay does wash away over time to the lowest level. Also water seeps to the lowest level too, another reason to build your lake at the lowest level available. There is lots to know before you build, they also talk about silt build up after 30 years or so, and how to best deal with that issue.

Here in Medicine Hat, we are below sea level. The sea is very very very far and no where in sight, but we are still below sea level. I live on the "flats", one block or so from the creek. When it rains, the water in my back ally takes ten times longer to dry up and go away, than on a higher elevation, like just a very small distance of several city blocks, the water drains much faster. And they have more sand. Weeks have gone by and everywhere else in town can be bone dry, but where I live, that darn mud puddle just won't go away. This is because I am only one block from the creek, which means I am at a very very low level of elevation. Over hundreds of years of natural flooding, clay will deposit naturally in certain areas.

Next time it rains in your area, drive around and look for areas that are still wet, long after other areas have dried. This will tell you which areas have natural clay deposits, and build your lake at the spot that remains wet long after other areas have dried up.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I don't know the costs of cement in your area, but if they build the channels out of cement, it could be because other options are more costly. Materials have different costs in all areas, some pay less for cement but more for clay, while others pay more for cement and less or clay. It all depends on availability. Check out the different costs for materials first, then look at all the options available to you. If you use cement, you will most likely need to seal it. Water is a very corrosive element, and will cut threw the cement over a very short time.

 

[Waterbug]

Which soil should i test Waterbug? I don't even have a sample about it. Actually i am sure i should talk to some local engineers about my project and hear what they will suggest. The problem is , i am not in my hometown right now. I need to make a deep investigation about materials.

The tests are generally pretty simple. You dig a small hole to the depth the pond will be and look at the soil. If you don't feel comfortable telling the difference between soil types like loam, gravel, sandy and clay you can ask whoever is going to dig the pond. Even if they don't normally dig ponds they should still understand different soil types. If you want to go further samples can be mailed to different labs. Each lab will define how to get and prepare the samples.

The basic test is called a percolation test or perc test. Most perc test are to make sure soil does drain, but for ponds the opposite result is what you want.

Once you know the soil type it's then possible to come up with reasonable choices which can be as simple as compacting the soil.

Beyond whether the pond holds water you might want to test the soil for nutrients and ability to grow fish. Here in the US the government can provide a lot of free expert help on creating a productive pond. You might want to check if your government does this also. If not there is still a lot of info on the web for building a pond for fishing.