Remedying My Pond Architecture

[Mucky_Waters]

djoliver perhaps it would be appropriate to post your solution in koiguy1969's thread https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/8397-rick-simpsons-hemp-oil-story/
Just another of the many of life's problems overcome with the use of hemp.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Hey DJoliver
Just wanted to show you that you're not the only one with foam on your pond.
I just recently turned my pump back on in my new pond and still haven't figured out exactly how I'll have my removable skimmer set up, but I have it placed in a temporary position while I test it (thus the cement building blocks).
Here are a couple pictures taken about an hour apart.
The first picture was taken before turning the skimmer on, the second one was taken one hour after it had been running.


https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/1772-foam/




https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/1771-clear/

 

[djoliver1]

It works great! Thanks for the pics. Where is the pump that you are using with that portable skimmer box?

I can't wait until I've got a skimmer going. What are you using for filtering besides the skimmer? I've got lots of particles clouding the water, even though the single celled algae is pretty much gone now.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

This is my pump/filter room. It's kind of over kill, especially for the size of my pond, but on this pond I wanted to have my filters and pumps hidden and protected in a frost protected room.

This is the inlet line coming from the pond.
The 1" line comes from the skimmer, and the 3" line comes from the bottom drain.

I installed several valves to allow different water flow options. Currently I'm only using one pump to draw water through the filter tanks and the skimmer, but I may in the future use a second dedicated pump for the skimmer and possibly also install a pressure filter canister I have that also has a UV light.
In the winter I have the option of removing the skimmer and using the 1" line as an air line for a bubbler, or possibly some other smaller filter and pump option, bypassing the main tanks and just pumping through the 1" line and the 3" bottom drain.

I think you could use some sort of mechanical filter in your setup, as well as the skimmer.

 

[j.w]

Wow that's one fancy, smancy setup you have there Mucky and you did a fine looking job on it! It's a dream room come true for any pond owner!

 

[djoliver1]

Like Goldie said, that's a really impressive setup Murky. You need a new nick name with a set up like that! It looks like you made your own mechanical and bio filters. What kind of filter material did you use in each?

Yes, I definitely need a mechanical filter. I'm thinking of buying one of those pressurized ones, like the one that Pond Master makes, which provides both mechanical and bio filtering in 1 unit. Or I may just try to do some mechanical filtering in the skimmer box and then build a skippy type bio-filter. I guess I'll start with a skimmer box and see if it functions ok with a mechanical filter plate after the net/basket catches the big leaves and stuff. It might slow the water flow down too much, I don't know.

 

[Waterbug]

Pond Master makes, which provides both mechanical and bio filtering in 1 unit.

Certainly sounds perfect.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

LOL Waterbug is being facetious because of his contempt for those “all in one” filters. I tend to agree somewhat, especially in respect to their biological part of them. Take my own pressure filter, it actually works ok as a mechanical filter, although it’s a pain in the @$$ to clean, and it has a built in UV light, which works well, but the biological part of it is a joke. It has a few bio-balls that float around in the bottom portion of the thing where the bacteria colony is suppose to grow and do it’s stuff, and make no mistake, in that respect it does work, but on the grand scheme of things the amount of bacteria that grows in there is a small drop in the bucket compared to what is going on everywhere else in the pond.

Waterbug has also expressed a distain for Skippy type filters also, for the same reasons, but I believe they have value for home ponders because they are cheap to build and easy to experiment with. I have never built or used one, but I can see how they could be made into decent mechanical filters if you used the right type of media. Also because they open on the top and readily accessible you can see what’s going on in there, unlike a pressure filter.

As for biological filtering, I agree with what Waterbug has said many times, a water garden may never need any type of separate biological filter, it really depends on your fish load. The whole pond functions as a biological filter, the sides of the pond, the plants, and even the fish themselves have beneficial bacteria growing on them. Adding a few bio-balls or a bucket of lava rocks doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when you compare it to all the other surface area in your pond.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Waterbug, what would you suggest your cousin Mr. Oliver uses for mechanical filteration?

 

[djoliver1]

Right now I've got an old set of my wife's panty hose on a wire frame pressed into the water source opening at the top of the creek so all the water is being pumped through them. It looks like someone drowned up there (haha), but it seems to be working as a temporary solution. The water is clearing up. Just goes to show you how badly I need a filter.

I'll start with the skimmer box, where I should be able to put some filter pads too, if it doesn't slow the water down too much. But here's a question. One skimmer box allows for either a 8.5 inch or a 16 inch weir opening. Can a weir opening be too big? Since my pump is a 4100 gph and my pond surface area is only around 120 sq.ft. I'd think the 8.5 weir opening was good enough. But since I want to put some additional filter pads in the skimmer box and don't want to starve the pump, I might be tempted to go with the larger weir opening. But is there a down side to that? Can a weir opening be too big, causing some problem I don't know about? Any insights into weir size, Waterbug? Murky?

SkimmerFilter w/ 8 1/2" Weir 1800-5000 gph Up to 500 ft[sup]2[/sup]
SkimmerFilter w/ 16" Weir 5000-8500 gph Up to 1200 ft[sup]2[/sup]

 

[Waterbug]

LOL Waterbug is being facetious because of his contempt for those “all in one” filters. I tend to agree somewhat, especially in respect to their biological part of them. Take my own pressure filter, it actually works ok as a mechanical filter, although it’s a pain in the @$$ to clean, and it has a built in UV light, which works well, but the biological part of it is a joke. It has a few bio-balls that float around in the bottom portion of the thing where the bacteria colony is suppose to grow and do it’s stuff, and make no mistake, in that respect it does work, but on the grand scheme of things the amount of bacteria that grows in there is a small drop in the bucket compared to what is going on everywhere else in the pond.

It does certainly all come down to a person's definition of "works". Tossing an empty Coke can into a pond works as a combo filter. Bacteria will attach to it and if you pull it out it will be dirty so if you clean it off dirt has been removed from the pond.

Waterbug has also expressed a distain for Skippy type filters also, for the same reasons, but I believe they have value for home ponders because they are cheap to build and easy to experiment with. I have never built or used one, but I can see how they could be made into decent mechanical filters if you used the right type of media. Also because they open on the top and readily accessible you can see what’s going on in there, unlike a pressure filter.

I disagree. Skippy is only cheap if you can get most of the parts for free and value your scrounge time at $0. By that same measure all filters are cheap.

I compare Skippy to a Trickle Tower which is just a pile of rocks. A pile of rocks 1/10th the size of Skippy will perform as well or up to 20 times better than a full size Skippy in ammonia and nitrite conversion. Actual tests performed, tests which are really easy for anyone to do. I have read many, many times that Skippy is cheap and easy to build. But at least here in AZ a pile of rocks is still pretty darn cheap.

You have hit on what I think the huge attraction Skippy holds for DIY water gardeners..."easy to experiment with". They fulfill I need to tinker. And I say that respect, not with disdain. I've built many filters including different kinds of Skippy. At one time my driveway had a pile of old filters that was better than 30' x 8' x 4'. I like to tinker and I did learn a lot...about making stuff and the value of research.

So I consider myself pro Skippy as long as it's for having fun, learning. I have said many times that they're fun to build. I am not so happy about people pushing their filter building hobby onto people who actually need filters that function better than a Coke can. Or tell people who don't even own a drill that building a Skippy is easy. On the other hand, if people allow themselves to fall for it maybe that's best. I certainly fell for it back in the day and I have no regrets. Learned a lot.

 

[Waterbug]

Can a weir opening be too big?

Not really. Specifically a smaller opening would have a thicker sheet of water flowing over the weir. If you picture putting a 10,000 gph pump behind the skimmer what would happen, the weir would probably lay flat and there'd be like 8" of water going over the weir. A 100 gph pump and you'd get the thinnest amount of water over the weir.

Since skimmers work by surface tension a thicker sheet of water is no help. So it would be kind of a waste of electric if the skimmer's only function was to keep the surface clean.

But since I want to put some additional filter pads in the skimmer box and don't want to starve the pump, I might be tempted to go with the larger weir opening. But is there a down side to that?

A wider weir will have no effect on whether the pump gets starved. Clogged pads starve pumps.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Like Goldie said, that's a really impressive setup Murky. You need a new nick name with a set up like that! It looks like you made your own mechanical and bio filters. What kind of filter material did you use in each?

Yes, I definitely need a mechanical filter. I'm thinking of buying one of those pressurized ones, like the one that Pond Master makes, which provides both mechanical and bio filtering in 1 unit. Or I may just try to do some mechanical filtering in the skimmer box and then build a skippy type bio-filter. I guess I'll start with a skimmer box and see if it functions ok with a mechanical filter plate after the net/basket catches the big leaves and stuff. It might slow the water flow down too much, I don't know.

DJ this is the type of filter material I have in my mechanical filter http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Filter_Media/Matala/Matala_media.shtml
I also have a couple rolls of Savio Springflo Bio-Filter Media on hand if I think I ever need it, I won`t bother putting it in until such time. In the meantime my bio-filter tank just has water flowing though it. Actually Waterbug has got me thinking now, maybe instead of using the Springflow material in my bio-filter tank I could just fill it with empty Coke cans.

A lot of people use a Skippy type tank at the head of their waterfall, I don`t know if you could still do that in your case. If you have the water up-flow through some filter material in a tank (after the pump) I think you`d be better off then trying to suck the water through some filter material in the skimmer, plus you could fit more filter material in the tank then in the skimmer.
I was hoping Waterbug, with all his experiance and 960 sq feet of experimental filters, would have suggested some kind of mechanical filter for you.

 

[djoliver1]

The Savio skimmer box that I will probably have installed comes with a sheet of filter material behind the basket, which is may be the same as that roll of Savio Springflo Bio-filter material you mentioned, unless Savio makes a mechanical filter material as well, in which case it might be that. I thought the Matala was primarily used as a bio filter because it provides a lot of surface area for bacterial to settle in with large pores for the water to flow through, so it doesn't easily get clogged. Which grade of courseness are you using? And do you have several sheets going across your barrel or how to have the material arranged, so that the water passes through it and doesn't merely go around it?

Waterbug has been somewhat disdainful of me ever since I admitted this is more of a chore than a hobby for me, or that might just be my imagination, but I do appreciate his input, although I might not always understand 100% of what he's saying. Of course I appreciate your advice as well. This forum has been very helpful and it's only because of the patience you guys show newbies like myself. Thanks.

 

[addy1]

djoliver, we all have different needs for our ponds, all make them slightly different.
When I posted I was doing a bog, I was basically told that would never work. Well mine works great, my pond takes almost no maintenance from me, except cleaning the leaf baskets.

I made a 55 gallon skippy type up flow to get rid of pea gravel dust that filled the pond when I first fired up my large pump. Full of filtering material, it worked great, cleared my pond up in about 3 days, using a very low flow pump. The filter material I cut into circles tight enough to push against the sides of the barrel to keep water flowing through the material not around it with layers of other material in between them.

For your pond you want to have mechanical and biological filtering.