QUESTIONS ABOUT DIGGING

[Mmathis]

There are a couple of things. Well, maybe a few more than a couple ...

1 - One has to do with ledges. From what I've read, ledges are good to use for plants, but not good if you have critter visitors. Far as I know, the only critters we see here are o'possums, hawks & kites, and neighborhood cats (oh, and rats when there are no cats around). Now, coons & herons are in the vicinity, but not close -- IOW, have never seen or heard of sightings. So what about having some areas "ledged" and some areas sloped (what is it, 20-30 degrees?). The parts of my pond that will be dedicated for the box turtles will have sloping ledges which will support the grid material, but that's a different matter than plant ledges.

2 - How wide should a ledge be? Can this vary?

3 - How far from the top edge (how deep) should the first ledge be, then same for any subsequent ledges? I assume that having the shelves at different depths is to accommodate the different plants?

4 - Sorry if this sounds like a "duh" question, but as you're excavating, what do you do with the dirt? As I watch videos and look at pics of pond builds, everything just looks so neat & tidy. Here, with our clay, even digging a hole for planting, you end up with a sticky, clumpy mess. I can see using a tarp to pile the dirt on, but then the lawn will suffer. And again, with the clay, those trips back & forth with the wheelbarrow..... heavy, sticky....

5 - Anyone use a tiller to aid in the digging process? I've used ours before for little projects, just to loosen & help break stuff up. It worked great for that: loosen a layer of dirt, dig it out, etc. Ours is small enough that it could be lifted into and out of the hole easily (with a little help from hubby ... or, no, a little ramp ... sorry Honey ... I'm not one to wait around for help ).

 

[taherrmann4]

1. I only used ledges to place my rocks on so they would sit about 6 below the water level therefore not seeing any liner. I have two spots in my pond that I can plant plants that need shallower areas. The others go into my creeks and small pond where my waterfall drops to.

2. My ledge is about 12" wide.

3. 6" below the water line.

4. I used all the dirt i excavated and put on my hill behind the pond, building up the waterfall area. I have clay as well and mixed it with lots and lots of peat and top soil to enrich the soil.

5. I used a small excavator with a 12" bucket to dig the hole and my tiller to mix the clay that was excavated with top soil, and peat. My tiller is about the size of a lawn mower and it would barely do anything.

 

[fishin4cars]

1, slope the sides down so the turtles can enter the water but if possible for your box turtles the bog area would probably be the best choice as you don't really want them getting to deep water as they don't swim very well. As fro slope, IF your going to slope at all slope toward the center of the pond and then only gradually. the more level themore stable the pots will sit that the plants are in.
2. Width can very to your taste. i would make them at least 12" wide so a decent size pot can sit comfortably on the shelf.
3. Now this is the tricky one. Heron's will stand in water that is under 30" deep so any shelf less than that is a invitation. For racoons, and other animals you should be at least 16" deep, But you do need the water at least as deep as the pot you will be using is tall. I myself prefer to go deeper and use plastic milk crates for the pots to sit on so there is area's that the small fish can hide, and it helps eliminate area's for predators to attack.
4 and 5 If you use a tiller it will ground up the soil and make removal much easier. If your going to make a water fall plan ahead where you want it, put your dirt there. build-up then pack down in layers. Always remember that the hill will settle over time so go taller than you plan on using. Once the dirt is piled up it's far easier to cut and shape packed dirt to form streams and falls. If you have additional dirt left I mix the loose dirt with ground up leaves and tigs and grass cutting and such to make a really rich soil for landscaping, potted plants, and garden mixes. I just use a small area in a back corner and all plant matter that is small is thrown there and turned over a few times a year. Also throw any muck from the pond you get out over time. makes great fertilizer, the bacteria will help in breaking down the plant matter and help in your decomp prosess,
OH and BTW, I have found out I like land turtles far better than water turtles!!!

 

[addy1]

Your ledges can be any size, any depth, depending on how you want your pond to be set up. My one ledge is two 1/2 feet down, it is the base of the bog wall.

Some just put their plants on crates to raise them if they are too low.

The dirt I used to make mounds, hills, the pond edge higher, a water fall etc or pile it up and offer free dirt, there is always somebody that needs dirt.

 

[Mmathis]

Thanks for the quick replies! I'll have to give the "shelf" matter a little more thought.... but looks like 12" is sorta standardish?

TMANN -- Was it your excavator or a rental & what kind was it? I would LOVE something like that, as I don't think my hubby & son will be helping me much with the digging (of course, that could just be because I don't want to wait once I get started on something -- I don't like having to wait on people :nananananana: ).

FISHIN -- What changed your mind about turtles? And, oh, my compost pile will be happy for all the pond scum! I think (right now, at least), I've maxed out on my dirt to "greens" ratio, so won't be able to use the dirt (clay) there for a while. But a good suggestion, just the same.


Guess for some of the extra dirt, I can use to contour the planned new "girls'" side of the habitat. It's not built yet. Want to get the pond part done first as it will be easier to build the habitat fencing around the pond rather than the other way around. I just have trouble imagining this PILE of dirt .....

 

[fishin4cars]

Water fall! The bigger the pile of dirt the more Dramatic the fall!
Water turtles, well they poop quite a bit and the water stinks! They are twice as hard to feed, they need more requirements, and they carry more diseases. Due to they eat rotting food, in water, and usually fish in nature. AND THEY BITE! Every single one now has bitten me, NONE of the land turtles have. Houdini (The alligator snapper I got from CE has bitten me twice and he bit the softshell pretty bad as well. i found a turtle keeper here that took all the water turtles and gave them new homes. I'm suppose to get a opposite sex Sulcata tortise from him once mine gets old enough to sex and figure out what it is. He's in Metarie LA and has about 30 turtles but specializes in alligator snappers. But he a has a breeding trio of Sulcata's and has about six babies from last year that are the same age as mine.

 

[taherrmann4]

I rented my excavator for $150 for one Saturday, and did not have to return until Monday morning because they are closed in sunday.

 

[Mmathis]

What is the learning curve for operating a mini-excavator?

 

[whiskey]

We are digging ours the hard way, soil to go in raise [even higher] raised beds, for garden crops , the savings or cost on hiring a digger, will almost buy ready mix for new base.
When your on pensions, its all down to cost and practicalities and hard work,but i would rather dig out then mix concrete for 10ft x10ft 6" in depth.

 

[taherrmann4]

It took me all of about 30 minutes to get the hang of it to where I wasn't digging only down one inch or dumping the dirt I just dug back into the hole as I was turning it to dump on the hill. It was really fun, sort of like a big sandbox. If you need to be a little coordinated b/c you have to move two different joysticks and hit buttons at the same time.

 

[Waterbug]

I don't like shelves only because I don't like the look of seeing pots, the wrinkled liner, muck. Tall plants in pots blow over. Coons knock over pots. There are better building methods imo.

The concept that shelves give predators access has been repeated thousands of times in pond forums over the years and has never made a lick of sense to me, on any level, for any predator.

 

[addy1]

What is the learning curve for operating a mini-excavator?

Go somewhere with the machine that you can not hit anything, or dig up something you care about and play with the controls. It took me maybe 30-60 minutes to figure out the back hoe part, the bucket was no big deal. You will push a lever the wrong way many many times lol, get side tracked and opps! But it becomes a natural movement after awhile.

Or just start digging your pond, you will have it down by the time you are done.

 

[Mmathis]

Tee, hee! Sounds like fun! Have always wanted to drive one. Not that I WILL, but the option is there.

 

[addy1]

Tee, hee! Sounds like fun! Have always wanted to drive one. Not that I WILL, but the option is there.

I think you should, all gals should drive a tractor a few times in their life.

 

[Waterbug]

The cost is worth the experience gained. Not just on operation but to see what contractors go through. Everyone should.