Quarantine.........Good or Bad?

[Meyer Jordan]

I keep a 300 gal Rubbermaid with a DIY shower filter going 24/7. There are a few GF in there to keep the bio going. There have been times when I've thought about going to QT as needed [IOW, uncycled], but whenever I have done that with smaller tanks [such as growing fry], the day-to-day monitoring of the water and constant water changes was just more than I could handle -- maybe I'm not as dedicated as some. And while I can see where the "new" fish could be double-stressed by its time in QT, I'm more stressed myself worrying about my established fish and what would happen to them. The article was written with tropical "tank" fish in mind, where you have to be much more careful with their environments. And those fish [I assume] are more "delicate" and sensitive to changes than GF or koi. For now I'll continue doing what I'm doing...... But thanks or posting the article!

I closely re-read the article and could not find even the most remote inference that it was focused on tropical species. Seems like fairly general observations concerning quarantine for from hobby tanks to public aquariums.

 

[Tula]

Which spotlights another problem. Unless this filter has been cycled using the 'fishless' method, it most assuredly will harbor pathogens.

True. In my opinion, you'd be introducing pond pathogens in a controlled environment, which would be easier to treat, if needed. I've also read about cycling a pond with plain household ammonia .

I'm concerned about exposing my fish to something new, as they're haven't been additions is so long.

 

[Faebinder]

Hey Meyer thanks for sharing interesting articles.

 

[Faebinder]

I don't quarantine when buying from Dandy Orandas, Blackwater Creek, or the rain garden. The rest get a week quarantine.

If I get it from petco or petsmart (like the rosy minnows or dojo loaches) then it's gonna be quarantined for 4 weeks.

I only have one koi so I don't know if koi need as much quarantine as goldfish. They appear much more resilient.

 

[carolinaguy]

Quarantine methodology used by koi keepers relies on accepted practices rather than a pointed analysis of the actual threats, their life cycles and some measured way of releasing a fish from quarantine based on a set of valid criteria. In human medicine a patient is only released from a level of care when the criteria are met. For sample a patient coming out of surgery must be able to breathe on his own, show signs that the anesthesia has worn off, and has stable vitals among other requirements. Our fish come out of quarantine because they are still alive, have not manifested disease and lived in isolation for 90 days. Some keepers put a sacrificial fish in from the pond to see if the new guy can resist disease already in the pond, a reverse exposure if you will. Personally I believe in active intervention and prophylacsis (sp?) more importantly quarantine will not work against viruses. The only viral prevention is vendor selection. Only buy from kHv and spring viremia free vendors who test. As for bacteria, treat and scope scrapings and clipping. Hold fish only for the length of the parasites life cycle. A treated tank will be ick free in 8 days for example.

 

[barryian]

If I add another koi, I'll quarantine with a cycled filter.

Do you keep a cycled quarantine always running? or Setup months prior to buying a new fish with some aged existing pond water added to speed up the cycling process?

 

[EricV]

Do you keep a cycled quarantine always running? or Setup months prior to buying a new fish with some aged existing pond water added to speed up the cycling process?

New tank and filter with existing water and filter media is more or less a cycled QT. You can set this up in a short period of time. With new media, you can use the "filter squeezing" method to greatly jump-start the process: http://www.fishforums.net/threads/using-mature-filter-media.338658/

 

[barryian]

I never in 25 years have had a quarantine setup and always wanted one. One reason was it would need cycling to create a biofilm I believe, correct? That would take time. In the early learning years, not knowing what I was doing, I'd lose an occasional koi. Never knew why back then. I also don't have a great place to put it without it being an eyesore. Again, I like the idea and my greatest fear in buying a new fish would be KHV. So, I have 10 koi in 2000 gallons and due to their size, I don't need anymore. I wouldn't mind some smaller fish to mingle, not affecting the eco system but that KHV just frightens me. I haven't lost a fish since my rebuild in 2012 and that was due to stress of having 12 fish in a holding tank overnight, dumped into my new rebuild with all new water. I don't think they were enchanted with the procedure. 2 ended up with a bacterial infection that happened while I was away. It was so quick, I had to euthanize them with eugenol as it was beyond treatment. In those 5 years I've only had to remove one fish, anesthetize it, remove what appeared to be an anchor worm, put her ( it's a she) back and that's it. That anchor worm must have fallen from the sky ... lol ... as I had no other and treated with Dimilin 25 ... All's been well since.

Question: HAS ANYONE ever used KoiZyme and if so, any opinions? I've always done the feared PP application in March. Really not a problem if performed by someone experienced & had a never had problem with Aeromonas Alley after one or 2 pp treatments. I guess, both are ways of lowering the population. Mine a bit more risky for a beginner who's nervous. ....

 

[barryian]

New tank and filter with existing water and filter media is more or less a cycled QT. You can set this up in a short period of time. With new media, you can use the "filter squeezing" method to greatly jump-start the process: http://www.fishforums.net/threads/using-mature-filter-media.338658/

Thanks! Just pulled the article to read tonight!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

New tank and filter with existing water and filter media is more or less a cycled QT. You can set this up in a short period of time. With new media, you can use the "filter squeezing" method to greatly jump-start the process: http://www.fishforums.net/threads/using-mature-filter-media.338658/

The use of existing filter media to "clone" a new biofilter is a practice that has been used for ages and is usually quite successful. However, in relation to the topic of this thread, it should be remembered that not only is the Nitrifying bacteria being 'cloned' but also every other microorganism present in the existing filter media....Heterotrophic bacteria, virus and fungi as well as some larger organisms. And while most may be benign, it is in the nature of aquatic environments that some will certainly be pathogenic. Given that, at the most, only 3% - 5% of the existing filter biofilm is nitrifying bacteria, this certainly allows for the possible transfer (and 'cloning') of pathogens. Even so, if (this can not be overemphasized) the fish are healthy, infections or the symptoms of disease will not manifest.
Bottom line.......Keep your fish healthy through proper diet, water quality and freedom from stress. Only then does quarantine become elective.

 

[barryian]

The use of existing filter media to "clone" a new biofilter is a practice that has been used for ages and is usually quite successful. However, in relation to the topic of this thread, it should be remembered that not only is the Nitrifying bacteria being 'cloned' but also every other microorganism present in the existing filter media....Heterotrophic bacteria, virus and fungi as well as some larger organisms. And while most may be benign, it is in the nature of aquatic environments that some will certainly be pathogenic. Given that, at the most, only 3% - 5% of the existing filter biofilm is nitrifying bacteria, this certainly allows for the possible transfer (and 'cloning') of pathogens. Even so, if (this can not be overemphasized) the fish are healthy, infections or the symptoms of disease will not manifest.
Bottom line.......Keep your fish healthy through proper diet, water quality and freedom from stress. Only then does quarantine become elective.

Don't let them watch the news! Then, they'll be fine! Also, keep them off FaceBook!

 

[EricV]

The use of existing filter media to "clone" a new biofilter is a practice that has been used for ages and is usually quite successful. However, in relation to the topic of this thread, it should be remembered that not only is the Nitrifying bacteria being 'cloned' but also every other microorganism present in the existing filter media....Heterotrophic bacteria, virus and fungi as well as some larger organisms. And while most may be benign, it is in the nature of aquatic environments that some will certainly be pathogenic. Given that, at the most, only 3% - 5% of the existing filter biofilm is nitrifying bacteria, this certainly allows for the possible transfer (and 'cloning') of pathogens. Even so, if (this can not be overemphasized) the fish are healthy, infections or the symptoms of disease will not manifest.
Bottom line.......Keep your fish healthy through proper diet, water quality and freedom from stress. Only then does quarantine become elective.

I guess that goes back to what the point of the quarantine is. If its to allow the fish to recover from transit in a "sterile" environment until they are strong enough to enter the main tank/pond without succumbing to the pathogens in any established system, then yeah, you worry about what's already in your pond. But considering that, assuming all goes well, they are going to end up in the main system eventually, they will have to "get used to it".

If you're worried they are bringing a pathogen with them, then what's in the main system is irrelevant.

Mostly I view it as if they are going to get sick from the transit or new pathogens, have them get sick in a small system where they can be treated and overcome it and don't dump a high load of pathogens (that may already exist in small loads) back into the main system.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I guess that goes back to what the point of the quarantine is. If its to allow the fish to recover from transit in a "sterile" environment until they are strong enough to enter the main tank/pond without succumbing to the pathogens in any established system, then yeah, you worry about what's already in your pond. But considering that, assuming all goes well, they are going to end up in the main system eventually, they will have to "get used to it".

If you're worried they are bringing a pathogen with them, then what's in the main system is irrelevant.

Mostly I view it as if they are going to get sick from the transit or new pathogens, have them get sick in a small system where they can be treated and overcome it and don't dump a high load of pathogens (that may already exist in small loads) back into the main system.

All true, but as the author of the linked article pointed out, many quarantine set-ups are highly inadequate and may actually contribute to weakening a fish that is placed in such environments.
Quarantining, like many other aspects of pondkeeping, should be done correctly or it (they ) will do more harm than good.

 

[Tula]

Do you keep a cycled quarantine always running? or Setup months prior to buying a new fish with some aged existing pond water added to speed up the cycling process?

I have 4 koi, none were quarantined. 3 of the 4 I've had over a decade and the other I added two years ago. I've read where a large intex pool can be used for QT, even setting up a shower filter,within the pool. I'm just afraid to take a chance with my existing fish to add any without an adequate QT.

I have friends who have have large QT ponds and always have fish in them. I don't have the room for two ponds, so would have to try the intex pool route.