pond overcrowding vs fish farm overcrowding HOW???

[Dave 54]

Hey I wanted to say that I like the look of your pond. Very cool. I also noticed the flow from the return seems a bit slow. What is your turnover rate? I mean it looks like that water isn't even filling out the return fully.... you could have low dissolved oxygen as well.

DP has a point there Lee do you have a pond areator you could stick on the pond with a few airstones ?

Dave

 

[addy1]

It is a very neat looking pond. The koi keepers above will help you out. I don't have them, never have.

 

[boyice2014]

Hi all..... sorry been outside....

The dissolved oxygen is 8ppm tested it today, the waterfall is much better now, i have the 10,000LPH pump in for the past 8 days....moving only 2000+L of water.... i have some images a bit dark sorry....

Water flow into filter is very good NOT flooding but filling, water flow off waterfall very good, have a sheet of water coming off the shoot.... i also have 2 air stones running see image...

Been down to the chap 10in Koi that's looking unwell he's swimming but slower than all the others... he has eaten too seen him eat... Ummmm just leave him to it i guess and HOPE for the best.... i have loads of Tetra Medifin ( 100ml to the 2000L ) don't want to poor anymore gear into the pond it is salted to 0.3%

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** POND SIZE **
: 500 gallon / 2000+ L

: 7feet 3in Long / 3feet 7in Wide, 3feet 2in tall...With high flow water fall

: new green genie 1200L 16watt uv filter

: 10,000lph pump, for max water movement ie filtration.

: x2 air stones via pump filling the pond with air besides the waterfall.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** WATER TESTS **
My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, But.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Salt 0.3% tested !!

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 11c to 13c

Ph 7.5 / 8

Dissolved oxygen is 8ppm

 

[JohnHuff]

The 1200L filter you have is good for about 2 fish. It's ridiculous what these ready made filters claim.

I have less fish load than you in a bigger pond with more filtration (1 shower filter, 1 moving bed reactor, 1 sand/rock/stone filter) and I know I need even more bio-filtration for next year.

With the fish load you have, you would probably need a drum filter 5-6X as big completely filled with media to handle that fish load you have.

My advice is for you to build a large capacity bio-filter to handle your fish load.

 

[boyice2014]

Thank you JohnHuff....... I'll look into getting this bigger right away Thank you

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Dave....

Yes their Common Carp but I've had them from babe's and their now some 13 years old.... the ordinal Koi i have are also old-ish 8 years old.... its the new ones 8in long i purchased from the farm www.carpco.co.uk that are dying...

BUT they where perfectly fine until after about a week of me having them in my pond..... the tanks they where in where FULL of fish Koi all very good looking and healthy.....

I've lost 3x now all 8in in size.....all from the farm..... Oh and one 3in from the first visit to to the farm. NOT cheap either !! and whats worse BLOODY good looking koi too !!!! GUTTED !!

I've just noticed one of the other 10in ordinal Koi 8yr old is now swimming odd slow, not eating etc etc.... For ***** sake this is getting out of hand.... Ummmmmm ME !!!!!! over crowding i feel rushing....... buying madness.....

I'll watch him and salt bath / drugs etc.... if ??? it gets bad.....

Pond already salted to 0.3% indefinitely.....

Lee may I ask you where abouts you are in Kent spent many years down there at school on TS Arethusa lower upnor nr strood on the river medway then a number of drafts to chatham in my later Naval carreer its such beautiful part of Egland (even though I live in Plymouth) lol
You'll need a x40x-x100x veiwing range on your microscope .

Dave

 

[boyice2014]

Hi Dave.... I live in Sittingbourne but was born in Gillingham, right by the Chatham Dockyard Gates the ( gillingham gate ).... Sadly ALL gone. Navy days was AMAZING as a child just magical......

 

[Dave 54]

My goodness our old PTI used to live in Gillingham I remember popping out to see him many moons ago (he's probably dead now sadly).
I have a koi keeping friend in Maidstone called Dave Beton weve talked on line for many years now .
Ok to take you through the scrape you'll need a x40-x100+ microscope then follow my thread bout taking a scrape let us know the results asap if you can:-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/taking-a-scrape-of-your-koi-or-goldfish.14555/

The faster we act on this the better and the more koi and carp saved


Dave

 

[boyice2014]

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/taking-a-scrape-of-your-koi-or-goldfish.14555/

Brilliant......

Dave i'll have a good read and look into this tomorrow gotta pop out ummm need cash for work roll on retirement lol

 

[Dave 54]

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/taking-a-scrape-of-your-koi-or-goldfish.14555/

Brilliant......

Dave i'll have a good read and look into this tomorrow gotta pop out ummm need cash for work roll on retirement lol

Talking of reading and knowing you do have some skills but may I suggest you take a look at these following links, which if you didnt already know them may help and if you already did may help to focus you somewhat Lee.
The first is from our own Library helping you out with reading materials Authors names Titles and those all important ISBN numbers :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/our-fish-koi-health-library-with-reviews-of-each-book.10498/

The second is how to put together a first aid kit of your own :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/first-aid-kit-for-koi.10492/

The third is about anethatizing koi a skill you'll need from time to time :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/anethatizing-you-koi-goldfish-the-various-stages-of.10493/

The fourth is about the correct use of chemicals in your pond :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/thr...d-understand-before-treating-your-fish.10501/

The fifth is about how to net your fish correctly :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/proceedure-when-catching-you-koi-netting.10511/

The last is what you need ask when buying koi from a private individual (you can use as a rule of thumb for dealerships if you wish) :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/proceedures-when-buying-a-koi-from-a-private-owner.10505/

Let us know what you find under the microscope it'd be interesting to know the outcome if your not sure post a photo of what is on the slide and we'll be able to tell you what it is


Dave

 

[topofthehill1]

I think its pretty normal to want a lot of fish. Nothing looks cooler than a lot of big fish in my opinion. But it leads to nothing but headaches.

I use to work at hotel with a restaurant that ordered fish and you get a fax ever week that tells you the prices of the fish. Frequently you will read about virus going though Salmon Farms and driving the price up. Same with all farmed fish. Sometimes you can't order a fish at any price. People that make their living off of overstocking farms sometimes have problems they cannot solve.

Thats a nice looking pond you built. Looks really cool. But those are some massive fish. I think that some stores are continuously adding fresh water. That is not an option for most people. Lots of aeration and water movement help. I once worked at a hotel that had what amounted to an indoor river with a near white water flow. It was insane how overstocked and large the koi grew. A large amount of fresh water was added everyday to replenish what was lost do to all the splashing. But here is the problem one night it stopped pumping water and about 30 koi died in a matter of hours because of lack of oxygen. So even though it appears some people succeed at it short term its a fine line. Also male koi do not tend to get as large as female koi.

I don't think any of what I said will help your situation. Its probably best to ask people who are heavily stocked what their turnover rates are, filtration, water changes are. Most people with backyard ponds are trying to change water as little as they have to. Nothing can really improve on what Dave said. I'm just point out that they use different tricks than the backyard pond and they are frequently not keeping those fish for 11 years or more.

 

[Dave 54]

I think its pretty normal to want a lot of fish. Nothing looks cooler than a lot of big fish in my opinion. But it leads to nothing but headaches.

I use to work at hotel with a restaurant that ordered fish and you get a fax ever week that tells you the prices of the fish. Frequently you will read about virus going though Salmon Farms and driving the price up. Same with all farmed fish. Sometimes you can't order a fish at any price. People that make their living off of overstocking farms sometimes have problems they cannot solve.

Thats a nice looking pond you built. Looks really cool. But those are some massive fish. I think that some stores are continuously adding fresh water. That is not an option for most people. Lots of aeration and water movement help. I once worked at a hotel that had what amounted to an indoor river with a near white water flow. It was insane how overstocked and large the koi grew. A large amount of fresh water was added everyday to replenish what was lost do to all the splashing. But here is the problem one night it stopped pumping water and about 30 koi died in a matter of hours because of lack of oxygen. So even though it appears some people succeed at it short term its a fine line. Also male koi do not tend to get as large as female koi.

I don't think any of what I said will help your situation. Its probably best to ask people who are heavily stocked what their turnover rates are, filtration, water changes are. Most people with backyard ponds are trying to change water as little as they have to. Nothing can really improve on what Dave said. I'm just point out that they use different tricks than the backyard pond and they are frequently not keeping those fish for 11 years or more.

Your always going to have problems with any intensively farmed fish this is why many of the employees have qualifications in Aquaculture with some of them becoming experts in their fields , however intensive fish farming and a small private pond are two totally differing things .
Val and I dont claim to be experts I dont think anyone on this site does but we have years of fishkeeping behind us and a strong knowledge base because we chose to buy books on our hobby as well as books on fish health and educate ourselves .
The problem with many fish keepers is they think that fish are throwaway comodities that dont live very long when infact they do totally oposite and can in some cases outlive their owners if they are correctly looked after .
But Lee has a problem of his own making in that he didnt QT his new koi (a fatal mistake for many of them) but our job is to educate people as best we can and I think Lee if he stays o this site will remember his mistake and how we as a forum went about helping him and go on to educate and help others himself .
At the moment we cant say anymore until Lee gets the scrape on his koi done and comes up with the parasite that is causing so many koi deaths , we do have a strong idea as to what it is but wont say anything unless its confirmed as the parasite we are thinking of because if we were wrong it may do his koi more harm than good .

Dave

 

[topofthehill1]

Your always going to have problems with any intensively farmed fish this is why many of the employees have qualifications in Aquaculture with some of them becoming experts in their fields , however intensive fish farming and a small private pond are two totally differing things .
Val and I dont claim to be experts I dont think anyone on this site does but we have years of fishkeeping behind us and a strong knowledge base because we chose to buy books on our hobby as well as books on fish health and educate ourselves .
The problem with many fish keepers is they think that fish are throwaway comodities that dont live very long when infact they do totally oposite and can in some cases outlive their owners if they are correctly looked after .
But Lee has a problem of his own making in that he didnt QT his new koi (a fatal mistake for many of them) but our job is to educate people as best we can and I think Lee if he stays o this site will remember his mistake and how we as a forum went about helping him and go on to educate and help others himself .
At the moment we cant say anymore until Lee gets the scrape on his koi done and comes up with the parasite that is causing so many koi deaths , we do have a strong idea as to what it is but wont say anything unless its confirmed as the parasite we are thinking of because if we were wrong it may do his koi more harm than good .

Dave

Lee,
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry for the lose of your fish.

I completely agree with Dave and you are getting some pretty specific answers to your problem. I was trying to address the larger questions you asked in your topic. How come I can't have that many fish? Its not just ponds, its also aquariums, reefs, fish stores, breeders, most public aquariums, and these reality shows on tv now where they fill up a tank and stock it full of salt water fish. I know its not cycled but thats not their problem they built a tank and made a tv show.

Part of the problem to me is the breeder should have said. Can your pond handle all these fish at once? And most of them are not going to ask.

The local fish store by my house has 3 kids swimming pools full of koi with just an airstone. There is no filtration that I don't see. What I don't see is probably the employee who comes in and throws out the dead ones. However, their are people out there who successfully do it. Most of them are going through a lot of work to maintain it, financially depend on it, doing it very short term or riding a very fine line between success and total failure. Even those people have their disasters. Most of these people are not really doing it for enjoyment.

What I am saying is I think he fell into a very common trap that is a larger problem. I expect breeders to have a better looking pond than I do but I think they should inform people they are going to some extremes.

Travis