Pond dug, liner in...now pump/waterfall concerns

[Jason]

I have seen those pre-filters before, I even have one similar on my Beckett 650gph (which is not in use right now), but the only downside to those is having to get in the pond and pull it up the pull the pre-filter off the clean it way too often! I used a 10" Pond Planter basket with a mesh pattern and laser cut two holes in the bottom 1" for the two 500 GPH pumps that use 3/4"ID (7/8" (.875) OD) tubing and then slide the hoses in from the bottom and flipped the basket upside down on top of the Pumps on a flat slab of granite counter top so NO large debris can get it and let the actual Filter take care of the Medium/small/and fine debris without the pumps ever getting clogged!

 

[DMB21]

Makes sense. Your idea seems like a really simple/affordable option.

Let me ask another question. I also have a 38 gallon pond that was left with my house when we bought it. Is this too big to use as the filtration basin/bog at the head of the stream?

 

[Nepen]

I think that is not too big. you can make it a little bog (which is a kind of filteration too) with tall grass and flowers... well, that's my first thought of it anyway

I think someone told me brfore that the more media, the better. My waterfall is pretty small and can not hold a lot of media but it is enough for my pond (which has quite a lot of fish the size).

 

[DMB21]

Can't thank all of you enough! The help I've received here is above and beyond what I could have expected. Thanks for the patience and quick/thorough answers/advice/ideas!

 

[Nepen]

I'm a newbie too, just read a lot of other people's post and get ideas from that.

Also, when you finish setting up the pond, leave the pond cycle with a few fish for about 5-6 weeks (or longer) so you grow the good bacteria that way. I made a mistake of putting 30+ goldfish in the first day I put the water in and had so much problem with fish died and ammonia since I dont have any good bacteria to help with the waste my fish created (and I overstocked my pond so badly too).

and buy water test kit!

 

[DMB21]

I think that is not too big. you can make it a little bog (which is a kind of filteration too) with tall grass and flowers... well, that's my first thought of it anyway

I think someone told me brfore that the more media, the better. My waterfall is pretty small and can not hold a lot of media but it is enough for my pond (which has quite a lot of fish the size).

So, my thought on this filter/bog: 38 gallon pond that sits partially under my boardwalk, which will hide the tubing and water entrance. Line the bottom with lava rock about 6-8 inches deep (roughly to the height of the plant shelves). Add some plants/grasses. Do I need anything else in there? I've heard of using shower loufas stuffed into a mesh bag? Should this go above/below the lava rocks? Should my pond exit come in the form of another hole with tubing inserted considering my 38 gallon pond is not a waterfall pond and has no overflow spillway? If I should drill a hole for more tubing, should it be near the top or bottom of the pond?

Lots of questions, sorry!

 

[Nepen]

I'm not sure May be you could read other members topic about how to build bog.. I saw a few a while ago. you will probably get better idea from there

Here're some

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/11959-bog-question/?hl=building
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/11675-explanation-of-bog-please/?hl=building#entry170781
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/10739-beginner-bog-builder-wlots-of/?hl=building#entry149619

and this one found in one of the link I listed above

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/6894-bog-building/

 

[DMB21]

Thanks, Nepen...now I'm even more confused before. :banghead3: :cheerful:

Sooo confused by the whole bog/filtration thing. Hypothetically, would it be okay to just have the water from my pond pump into the bottom of a "bog" basin, which is filled with lava rock and some plants, then have the water flow out of a tube placed on the opposite side of the bog? Do I need a second pump to keep the water moving? Most of those links seemed to indicate the bog should be within the pond -- not describing a bog that would sit atop a stream.

 

[Jason]

A bog to a stream is fine and would only double up on filtration! Yes have the water flow up through the bog and pour into the stream and into your pond, if you are getting two pumps then just have one for the bog and one for a water feature like a spitter to aerate the pond, and splice it off so you have a 3/4" tubing leaving one 600gph pump to a 3/4" to double 1/2" Tee and then run two 1/2" tubing, one to the Spitter and one on the pond bottom for circulation, I would not recommend a 600gph pump JUST for a spitter as most of them are only 1/2" or 3/8" outlets and would shoot 8ft or more! lol That way you can have your other 600GPH JUST to the bog/stream

 

[Nepen]

Ok here is my image on this pond and bog and steam of yours . You have a small bog that is a little taller or flush with the level of your steam rock so that when the water flow out of the bog, it'll just flow through the steam then to your pond. You might have to cut a little part of the bog tub to allow the water to flow out (look like a waterfall tub here http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=rel&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1) ..so the bog is a bit higher than the steam then the steam slope down to the pond.

you also have to have a liner under your steam, my idea is have the liner position so that the water, if leak, will g back to your pond...still think of how to do that

I wish I could have more space for a bog!!

 

[DMB21]

Update for this Sunday evening -- by the way, I've not ignored the recent posts, just have been busy working and spending time with my wife and daughter. None-the-less, I appreciate every comment/reply within this thread. I've gained more knowledge through this conversation than I have in all my hours of reading up in the time leading to joining the Garden Pond Forum and since.

Anyway, the update...

As it turns out, I'm just not going to have enough space for the bog and stream. Look-wise, it appears it would work, but in measuring and planning, it seems likely it will look crowded and forced more than it will look natural. So, the stream has been nixed (though the boardwalk will remain). Instead, I'll be building a stone wall that will feature a waterfall. I figure this might be better anyway, as it will be in a more neutral area of the pond, visually-speaking, and by building a rock wall, I can create a more dramatic waterfall that will be much more impressive than the small 12-inch drop I was expecting with the stream plan.

At the top of the rock formation I plan to include Nepen's suggested $10, 2-gallon spillway to provide some filtration. So here are my new questions:

1. Is there anything wrong with disguising this spillway with rocks all around it and overtop of it? I figure at the top, I'll have 1 or 2 flat rocks that make for easy moving and easy access.

2. For biological media, which is better: lava rock or pea gravel?

3. Again for bilogical media, I have a bunch of BioBalls that were part of the filter left to me (which no longer works). Can I just set these on top of the rock? Under the rock? Amid the rock? Not at all?

4. Should I include a shower loufa or two? I was told or read (can't recall which) that these are great forms of bio media given their porous nature. If I should use them, where should they be with regard to the gravel/rocks and the BioBalls?

5. I presume I should still have the tube leading from the pump enter the spillway via a cutout hole near the bottom of the sidewall? Two questions with this: how do I secure the tubing from pulling itself out of the spillway and how do I seal the connection so it's watertight?

6. Will this all be enough filtration to support goldfish, snails, and a pleco, along with some plants?

As always, thanks in advance!!

 

[Nepen]

Hi,
I just have to let you know a problem I had with my 2 gallon waterfall/filter - there's not much room to put the mechenical filter in it (the quilt batting, which will filter out fish poo / solid waste) and I fixed that by building a pre-filter (https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/9833-would-this-make-a-good-pump-prefilter/) that cover my pump instead, which works well.
So now I only put the biological filter (the good bacteria will grow on those filter over time, which will help with all the ammonia/ nitrite/nitrate what fish waste make) in that 2 gallon waterfall/filter.

To answer some of your questions
1. I put a big flat rock over the top of my waterfall tub/spillaway - no problem.
2. I would prefer lava rock and may be other type of media like cut up PVC, if you have it. Put them in the mesh bag for easy cleaning/adjusting I loaded my tub with lavarocks, hair rollers/ some bio filter media I bought of Amazon/ 2 Fruval carbon bags.
3. put those bio media in the tub with lava rock, that's what I'd do.
4. If you already have that, then you can use it, if not, dont bother
5. I'm not sure what you mean? I know you have 2 pump, so one will be leading to the water fall and one you want to just have it come out from the sidewall of your stonwall? did I get that right? - I dont really have any idea for this, sorry... and my husband did the tightening of the hose to tub for me.. he just used the hose clamp like this one http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-W10...id=1374500858&sr=1-6&keywords=clamp+connector . If you read through some construction topics, there might be some good suggestions.
6. It'll take a while (at least 4-6 weeks) for the biological filter to start working (I learn this the hard way!!) and you should start with a few goldfish to kickstart the biological filter process (see, it needs fish waste to grow the bacteria) and you can start adding more and more fish once your water test result is good. Right now I have about 15 goldfish and 10+ guppies and mollies and my water is great. But before that I added about 27+3+15+... fish in the first day/week and I had none of the bacteria so my ammonia level was so high and a lot of fish died. But my pond now cycled (that's the new word I learn ) and can handle the amount of fish I have.. still pretty overstock and need to reduce the number later when they get bigger... but now it's ok.

 

[sissy]

you can combine media it does not matter and since i have been reading about haydite I may get some to add to my lava rock filters

 

[cr8tivguy]

Regarding Bio Filter Media- my research pretty much resulted in "anything that will increase your water surface" will work: lava rocks, pea gravel, floor scrubbers, brillo pads, plastic mesh, etc. It's about getting as much surface exposed to the water. This increases the good bacteria contact with the water that will convert Ammonia to Nitrites and then to Nitrates (I think I got the Nitrite-Nitrate thing right...)

Filtration is KEY to a pond (my humble opinion). You can't have enough filtration.

I run a bio filter (a 50 gallon filter with floor scrubbers in it) and my bog. The bog is not the primary filtration system. The reason is the bog is small. Ideally a bog should be about 1/3 the size of your pond. Mine is about 1/10. However, it looks great with the plants in it and does perform some filtration (any little bit will help).

Keep asking questions. I asked a ton of them. I still don't know enough to consider myself a ponder yet. That requires much more experience.

Just start off slow with fish. The pond when completed, is still not mature. There isn't enough established good bacteria yet to handle converting bio waste. Mine has been up and running since June and it's finally cycling correctly. I have a light film of brownish algae on the rocks and the water tests have remained stable for the last week.

And the beautiful thing about ponding is "You can always change things up" by adding another filter, more pumps, lights, bogs, waterfalls, etc. It doesn't have to end with your original concept.

Keep up the great work. I would love to see some photos.
Tim

 

[DMB21]

A few updates, a quesiton or two, and some responses to Nepen and cr8tivguy:

Updates:

I've turned in the Harbor Freight pumps in favor of a Rio 20HF HyperFlow (1290 GPH) pump I got for $50 brand new from a co-worker. Being that I have just two outlets, I didn't want to take up both with pumps -- plus I was concerned about energy efficiency. The Rio is energy effiecient, strong, has good reviews online, and will use just one of my two available outlets. It seemed a plus allaround -- especially since my plan for a bog and stream fell apart due to space issues.

Last night I drained the rain water in the pond, removed all excess dirt, and checked my patchwork from last week on a hole I discovered. All looked well, so I filled the pond about 1/2 way -- roughly 6 inches above the patch job. Pond is (mostly) level and water remained in the pond as of 6:00 this morning when I left for work. That's a solid start, I would presume. I figure I'll fill the balance of the pond this evening, as I figure any leackage would have occured within the first 24 hours. Tomorrow evening a buddy of mine is coming over to help me build a rock wall that extends into the waterfall area. I hope to have things looking on the up by the end of the weekend. If I remember, I'll take some photos and post tonight, Tim.

Questions:

1. Regarding the tubing that connects the pump to the waterfall spillway: I assume this tube should enter my 2-gallon spillway via a hole cut into the bottom/side of the spillway to allow the water to flow up through the biological media, correct? If so, how do I connect it to the spillway so it does not retract and spray water everywhere? Also, how do I seal this so it is watertight, prventing the water fream leaking out of the spillway? Nepen, this is the question I posed above that may not have been worded the best

2. How soon, how many, and what kind of fish should I add? My initial thought is five or so cheap goldfish. If I'm thinking correctly, it doesn't make sense to add a pleco or snails at this point, as they'll not have anything to munch on. Is my line of thinking on par with where I stand at this point? Can I add fish like Tetras, Neons, etc eventually? I feel like it might be neat to have schooling fish, but feel like that isn't an option.

3. How do I over-winter the pond -- both in terms of fish and pump? Should the fish remain? Do I feed them? Should I shut off and pull out the pump? I know I'm ahead of myself, but it never hurts to gain the knowledge early.

Responses:

@Nepen -- thanks for the tips. Did you put your lavarock in the mesh bag with everything else? To me, it would seem like the lava rock would be fine outside of the bag since it's heavy and large enough to adjust on its own. Everything else makes sense in a bag to keep it all together and prevent it from flowing out the spillway.

@Sissy -- thanks, as well! Should I include activated carbon? When can I add some plants, and what might be the best types to add early in the process?

@Tim -- a couple questions. Will I need an electric filter in addition to this bio-filter? Does the bio-filter ever need cleaned/replaced, or should I just let it build up indefinitely? I won't be having a bog any longer, but the 2-gallon spillway will continue to serve as a filter. Thanks for the compliments -- and more importantly, thanks for the advice! As I said above, I'll try to remember to take some photos tonight to post here. Nothing to look at just yet, but it's getting there, and my sense of accomlishment is growing!

Thanks again to everyone -- so many helpful people around these parts. I never would have expected this pond to be as involved as it is. I have had fish tanks before and they were work, but nothing in comparison to this. I guess I should have figured it was more difficult than just liner, water, pump -- but I'm glad it's not.