Pond built; No permit
- Thread starter Orangele
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JohnHuff
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Ya, that's the biggie. I can see the pond raising a red flag, but the sliding doors probably won't.
That also depends on how long you plan to keep your house. Maybe the laws will have changed in 20 years time and what's illegal now will be legal then! In 20 years, anything can happen, you can even run for mayor and change the laws.
That also depends on how long you plan to keep your house. Maybe the laws will have changed in 20 years time and what's illegal now will be legal then! In 20 years, anything can happen, you can even run for mayor and change the laws.
Orangele said:
sissy
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That's why I say go after the builder ,losing value on your home is no fun and when you sell it could be a nightmare .Make builder make it right that is what you paid him for turn him in .Before he keeps doing it to other people
My desire is to just bite the bullet and go ahead and roll the dice, and try to get everything permitted now. Granted it scares the crap out of me that the pond will be found to be totally unrepairable to meet code, or nearly as bad, will require major (expensive) repairs, but at least I will not be worried for years to come about being caught by the county, who will then go after me with a vengeance. If it can't meet code in its current state, who knows what would happen then?
From the photo you can see an existing retaining wall on which the (6) spills are mounted. That wall had to be undermined in sections, and then a new rebar-reinforced wall/footing poured which acts as the back wall for the pond and a support for the retaining wall above it. So if anything, the back wall structure has been reinforced. The front wall of the pond has a pretty huge footing. In other words, I think the structure is sound which is what I would think the county would be most concerned about. But what do I know.
Lastly, as some of you may know, in Vegas where the house is located, belongs to an HOA which is very intrusive. The architectural committee of the HOA actually asked to inspect the area and speak with the pond builder prior to giving approval to proceed.
From the photo you can see an existing retaining wall on which the (6) spills are mounted. That wall had to be undermined in sections, and then a new rebar-reinforced wall/footing poured which acts as the back wall for the pond and a support for the retaining wall above it. So if anything, the back wall structure has been reinforced. The front wall of the pond has a pretty huge footing. In other words, I think the structure is sound which is what I would think the county would be most concerned about. But what do I know.
Lastly, as some of you may know, in Vegas where the house is located, belongs to an HOA which is very intrusive. The architectural committee of the HOA actually asked to inspect the area and speak with the pond builder prior to giving approval to proceed.
Sorry for your predicament.
Do you have architectural drawings for the project? If so will the architect sign off that the construction was done in accordance with those plans?
If not, I would not bring it up with your permitting agency.
I've been in your exact situation before. Without an architect or engineer signing off on the plans, and construction method in accordance with those plans, there is little chance that the permitting people will allow the structure to remain. You're basically asking the paper pushers at the permitting agency to "trust me everything was done correctly" inside those concrete walls. They almost certainly will not, without someone else assuming the liability (i.e. an architect/engineer).
The people at those agencies are usually very good at follow a pre-determined script. Step one, followed by step two, followed by step three. You're asking them to deviated from their usual procedural form (inspecting something after it is built). It almost certainly won't go well. And sometimes they can be vindictive. In their eyes you're a scofflaw, who is now asking for mercy. It almost certainly won't go well. They all make a living from people following the pre-determined procedural script by pulling and paying for permits. You are a threat to their livelihood, and consciously or not, will be viewed as such.
Sorry to be so downbeat, but the old adage; "it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" in my experience does not apply here. And I'm speaking from direct experience.
Enjoy the pond for as long as you can ( no pond lasts forever anyway) and cross any legal/permitting issues in the future as necessary.
Best of luck
P.S. Every legal jurisdiction is different, your mileage may vary.
Do you have architectural drawings for the project? If so will the architect sign off that the construction was done in accordance with those plans?
If not, I would not bring it up with your permitting agency.
I've been in your exact situation before. Without an architect or engineer signing off on the plans, and construction method in accordance with those plans, there is little chance that the permitting people will allow the structure to remain. You're basically asking the paper pushers at the permitting agency to "trust me everything was done correctly" inside those concrete walls. They almost certainly will not, without someone else assuming the liability (i.e. an architect/engineer).
The people at those agencies are usually very good at follow a pre-determined script. Step one, followed by step two, followed by step three. You're asking them to deviated from their usual procedural form (inspecting something after it is built). It almost certainly won't go well. And sometimes they can be vindictive. In their eyes you're a scofflaw, who is now asking for mercy. It almost certainly won't go well. They all make a living from people following the pre-determined procedural script by pulling and paying for permits. You are a threat to their livelihood, and consciously or not, will be viewed as such.
Sorry to be so downbeat, but the old adage; "it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" in my experience does not apply here. And I'm speaking from direct experience.
Enjoy the pond for as long as you can ( no pond lasts forever anyway) and cross any legal/permitting issues in the future as necessary.
Best of luck
P.S. Every legal jurisdiction is different, your mileage may vary.
Well now rather than having the crap scared out of me, the crap has already exited. As I mentioned at the beginning, the pond is a converted planter box, and that structure was permitted I believe (I was going through the online records earlier). One potential approach I can think of is to hire an engineer to evaluate the project (I do have some photos during construction) who may potentially sign off on design/stability which could then be submitted to the permit department.
The subject of permits makes my blood boil. We had to pay for a permit to have a patio installed. At the same time we were having our drainage tile dug up and re-installed. It had been done wrong when the house was built (23 years earlier) and we had water in our basement every time it rained. The original job was "inspected" under the permit to build our house. The same guy who inspected THAT work (small town, he's someone's brother-in-law, job for life) came to inspect the patio work and said "you need to get a permit for that drainage work, too". Oh, really? I should pay twice to inspect the SAME JOB? The one YOU approved 20 plus years ago? Not happening. He moved on real quick.
I think the original idea of the permit was to protect the homeowner, who may not know what proper electrical or plumbing or whatever should look like. But today it's just become a revenue source. We had a roof job go bad and, even though the roofer never called for the "required" inspections - but he paid for the permit, by golly - when we called on our village for help, they said "sorry! Nothing we can do!" and they continued i$$uing permit$ for the same idiot right in our neighborhood. They even had the gall to tell us that it was OUR responsibility to make sure the inspections were done. Really? Did I pay for the permit? Did you hand me the paperwork that laid out the requirements? Doesn't matter. Logic does not prevail when small minds are in charge.
Did I say "blood boil"? I should have said "rolling, seething boil"!
Good luck with your issue. Your pond is beautiful, by the way.
I think the original idea of the permit was to protect the homeowner, who may not know what proper electrical or plumbing or whatever should look like. But today it's just become a revenue source. We had a roof job go bad and, even though the roofer never called for the "required" inspections - but he paid for the permit, by golly - when we called on our village for help, they said "sorry! Nothing we can do!" and they continued i$$uing permit$ for the same idiot right in our neighborhood. They even had the gall to tell us that it was OUR responsibility to make sure the inspections were done. Really? Did I pay for the permit? Did you hand me the paperwork that laid out the requirements? Doesn't matter. Logic does not prevail when small minds are in charge.
Did I say "blood boil"? I should have said "rolling, seething boil"!
Good luck with your issue. Your pond is beautiful, by the way.
I will add one further bit of hope - you mentioned your HOA. In our little neck of the woods, the HOA is the only thing more powerful than the building department. They get final say on any project that we do before the permit is even issued. So if the HOA saw and approved the plan, you may have a good fall back.
Not sure what you do at this point, but mental note, don't trust the contractors!
I knew I had to pull a permit for electrical since we were doing a complete power upgrade from the main line to our extra house prior to running the electrical tot he pond. So while I was down at the city hall pulling the electrical permit I asked "do you need a permit for ponds in our city?" Lady laughed and said "no". I then asked "no matter how big or deep it is?" She said "nope".
When the inspector came out to inspect the electrical work he said nothing of the massive hole in the ground yet to be a pond.
All cities are different. Some cities near us you can't even paint your house without pulling a permit. Luckily our city doesn't really care what you do.
I knew I had to pull a permit for electrical since we were doing a complete power upgrade from the main line to our extra house prior to running the electrical tot he pond. So while I was down at the city hall pulling the electrical permit I asked "do you need a permit for ponds in our city?" Lady laughed and said "no". I then asked "no matter how big or deep it is?" She said "nope".
When the inspector came out to inspect the electrical work he said nothing of the massive hole in the ground yet to be a pond.
All cities are different. Some cities near us you can't even paint your house without pulling a permit. Luckily our city doesn't really care what you do.
Orangele,Orangele said:
This fact gives you some authoritative support. If there was any objection or legal permit violations for constructing the pond, then the HOA should not have approved your build at the time. Obviously, the HOA cannot supercede city or county regulations, but they SHOULD be aware of them. This fact may help you in a legal matter of getting a permit post-facto and may negate any future legal troubles if and when you may sell the home.
i would personally contact an attorney and inform him or her of ALL these details and then let the attorney resolve it for you. A few hundred dollars for attorney's fees are well worth the price of the feeling of relief and freedom in this matter.
I experienced something similar a couple years back. I purchased one of those over-seas, metal shipping (cargo) containers for a storage unit at my home. I checked the city laws and there was no restriction on them at the time, in April. In December, the city sent me a notice that these containers were illegal according to a law enacted in September of that year. That was after the fact that I installed the container. I contacted an attorney who spoke to the chair of the city council and explained this timeline. The attorney also told the chair that he could not legally represent me against the city because he was already representing the city in other legal matters, so it would be a conflict of interest problem. However, he notified the chair that he would direct me to another attorney who would be able to win the case for me in court because of the circumstances and the law. The city dropped the complaint to have me remove the container and the attorney didn't even charge me a dime.
Gordy
JohnHuff
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Time to bring on the pitch forks and go to city hall. Those idiots we elect are supposed to serve us. Instead, they serve themselves. All city jobs should be no pay.
Orangele, the number of people you have been suggested to contact have gone out of hand, architects? engineers? lawyers? Why not the Pope? I think we should fall back on my plan, just lay low and start practicing that foreign accent if they call.
Orangele, the number of people you have been suggested to contact have gone out of hand, architects? engineers? lawyers? Why not the Pope? I think we should fall back on my plan, just lay low and start practicing that foreign accent if they call.
JohnHuff said:
These are tough ones, John! Which accent should I use? Hee Hee
Ich verstehe nicht German
Maopopo iaʻu ʻole Hawaiian
Я не понимаю Russian
Angizwa Zulu
OK, I am just laughing my butt off right now....
I searched for how to say "I don't understand" in other languages and came up with a long list. At the bottom of the list, there was a list of links to other common phrases.
Other phrases
Welcome | Hello | Good morning | Good afternoon | Good evening | Good night | How are you? | Long time no see | Please | Thank you | Excuse me | Sorry | Goodbye | Bon voyage | Pleased to meet you | What's your name? | Where are you from? | I (don't) understand | Please say that again | Please speak more slowly | Please write it down | Do you speak English? | Do you speak ...? | Speak to me in ... | How do you say ... in ...? | I don't know | Go away! | Leave me alone! | Help! Fire! Stop! | Call the police! | Merry Christmas and Happy New Year | Happy Easter | Happy Birthday | Good luck | Cheers! | Bon appetit | Would you like to dance? | How much is this? | Have a nice day | Where's the toilet? | Get well soon | I love you | I miss you | My hovercraft is full of eels | One language is never enough
Please note the second to last phrase...
Is there an inherent problem with hovercrafts that make them indicative to being overrun with eels? Maybe I shouldn't buy a hovercraft then? WTF?
Hey, I didn't make this up, it was just there! LOL
Gordy
I searched for how to say "I don't understand" in other languages and came up with a long list. At the bottom of the list, there was a list of links to other common phrases.
Other phrases
Welcome | Hello | Good morning | Good afternoon | Good evening | Good night | How are you? | Long time no see | Please | Thank you | Excuse me | Sorry | Goodbye | Bon voyage | Pleased to meet you | What's your name? | Where are you from? | I (don't) understand | Please say that again | Please speak more slowly | Please write it down | Do you speak English? | Do you speak ...? | Speak to me in ... | How do you say ... in ...? | I don't know | Go away! | Leave me alone! | Help! Fire! Stop! | Call the police! | Merry Christmas and Happy New Year | Happy Easter | Happy Birthday | Good luck | Cheers! | Bon appetit | Would you like to dance? | How much is this? | Have a nice day | Where's the toilet? | Get well soon | I love you | I miss you | My hovercraft is full of eels | One language is never enough
Please note the second to last phrase...
Is there an inherent problem with hovercrafts that make them indicative to being overrun with eels? Maybe I shouldn't buy a hovercraft then? WTF?
Hey, I didn't make this up, it was just there! LOL
Gordy
$35,000 for a pond to be built wow and the chap didnt connect you to the drains either , most expert pond builders should have done this for you.
We had our neighbour build ours planning permission only applies should you lay foundations here in the UK so we got arond this by creating a pond that sits ontop of the earth with only the bottom drain bellow , thus as a free standing struckture we didnt need planning permission .
To connect our filters to the drain we simply ran a pipe over the top of the earth direct to drain .
Your bottom drains should have been hitched up to filters big enough to take a 4" pipe with any water drained off via your filters personally i'd get the builder to correct this at there cost .
Any water we drain off leaves via a 2" pipe network which in turn oines onto just one 2" pipe .
Dave
We had our neighbour build ours planning permission only applies should you lay foundations here in the UK so we got arond this by creating a pond that sits ontop of the earth with only the bottom drain bellow , thus as a free standing struckture we didnt need planning permission .
To connect our filters to the drain we simply ran a pipe over the top of the earth direct to drain .
Your bottom drains should have been hitched up to filters big enough to take a 4" pipe with any water drained off via your filters personally i'd get the builder to correct this at there cost .
Any water we drain off leaves via a 2" pipe network which in turn oines onto just one 2" pipe .
Dave
I got it now! The reference to the hovercraft full of eels is a Monty python skit! Who would have guessed!
Gordy
Gordy