Planning a new Pond Project!
- Thread starter bagsmom
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@Lisak1 - hey there! You are in Illinois, right? I think you are up near Chicago?
My folks are more in central Illinois - not far from St Louis or Springfield.
Did you see the pictures of how this recent pond was constructed? The pipe from the intake bay is mostly underground but there is a 2 to 3 foot section that is exposed. I wrapped it in underlayment fabric and have it disguised with rocks.
I am thinking we will have to turn his stuff off in the late fall, to prevent freezing and bursting. Would you agree? The pump is 3000 gph and has a very strong flow. My Dad thought about getting a heater and keeping it in the intake bay, to warm the water flowing through. I feel like that might not work.
My thought is that we will need to turn off the pump and drain the water from the waterfall filter. We will need to disconnect the pump from the check valve to release the water in the exposed pipe (that goes up to the waterfall.)
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thank you!
My folks are more in central Illinois - not far from St Louis or Springfield.
Did you see the pictures of how this recent pond was constructed? The pipe from the intake bay is mostly underground but there is a 2 to 3 foot section that is exposed. I wrapped it in underlayment fabric and have it disguised with rocks.
I am thinking we will have to turn his stuff off in the late fall, to prevent freezing and bursting. Would you agree? The pump is 3000 gph and has a very strong flow. My Dad thought about getting a heater and keeping it in the intake bay, to warm the water flowing through. I feel like that might not work.
My thought is that we will need to turn off the pump and drain the water from the waterfall filter. We will need to disconnect the pump from the check valve to release the water in the exposed pipe (that goes up to the waterfall.)
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thank you!
Not to butt in but we get frost here as well. so long as the temps are not below 20 to 25 the pond should be fine running at these temps. Flowing water will do just fine . i feel your issue is going to be the Bio falls. at 20 to 25 temps i think you'll be fine. but below that is when trouble could start.
Yes i would drain the bio falls. yes i would disconnect the pump, But one thing you do not want to do is to shut down the pipes. if the pipe is going to have water in to that just can't be removed you need to give it a place to go. and if the pipe is open the ice can expand and go in the direction of flow and not split the pipe
Yes i would drain the bio falls. yes i would disconnect the pump, But one thing you do not want to do is to shut down the pipes. if the pipe is going to have water in to that just can't be removed you need to give it a place to go. and if the pipe is open the ice can expand and go in the direction of flow and not split the pipe
I welcome all advice on this! I was asking Lisa specifically because I think she lives closest to their weather zone. They definitely get very cold!!!!! Like below zero cold.
I am indeed north of Chicago. We've had temps far below zero as well as several polar vortexes and the pond has managed all with no issues. Lots and lots of ponds run all winter long here - I've seen them for myself.
To me, it's not the freezing lines that you want to worry about - if the water is moving, the lines will not freeze. It's whether or not the waterfall can handle icing over. You don't want to create ice dams that will direct the water out of the pond. My waterfall is wide and concave, so even the deepest ice doesn't dam up the water flow. The water continues to flow under the ice.
Let me go look at the photos and see if I can see the pipe you're referring to. BRB!
OK. I looked at the photos. First of all - oh my god woman. That is absolutely stunning. Not natural? WHO CARES? It's beautiful and I can only imagine your dad is tickled pink.
I don't see the exposed pipe - do you mean exposed in the pond? Exposed outside of the pond? Fill me in on that detail and we can talk more.
After studying your waterfall I think it looks like it would handle ice just fine. It's wide enough that even if the water were directed to one side or the other, it would still end up back in the pond. The only way to know for sure is to try. Make sure dad has the pond filled to capacity before it gets too cold to keep a hose outside and I think he will be fine to leave the pump running.
And @GBBUDD is correct - with my first year of pond cam watching all winter long, the ice didn't get more than a few inches thick. Granted, we had a milder than normal winter, but one thing I've learned is that both ice and snow are great insulators. A few inches of ice actually appears to help keep the pond warmer - the fish swim very close to the ice all winter long. I assumed the would stick to the bottom, but they really don't. They were at the top more when there was ice than when the water was open.
I don't see the exposed pipe - do you mean exposed in the pond? Exposed outside of the pond? Fill me in on that detail and we can talk more.
After studying your waterfall I think it looks like it would handle ice just fine. It's wide enough that even if the water were directed to one side or the other, it would still end up back in the pond. The only way to know for sure is to try. Make sure dad has the pond filled to capacity before it gets too cold to keep a hose outside and I think he will be fine to leave the pump running.
And @GBBUDD is correct - with my first year of pond cam watching all winter long, the ice didn't get more than a few inches thick. Granted, we had a milder than normal winter, but one thing I've learned is that both ice and snow are great insulators. A few inches of ice actually appears to help keep the pond warmer - the fish swim very close to the ice all winter long. I assumed the would stick to the bottom, but they really don't. They were at the top more when there was ice than when the water was open.
One word of caution that I have is the bio falls I don't know how much water your pushing and if it's not alot the bio falls my start to ice around the outside edges and that could be trouble.
Thank you again, everyone, for all the kind words!
@GBBUDD there is a lot of seepage from the waterfall pool down through the various rocks into the pond. It isn't a problem because the water stays in the pond and all the little different "trickle points" look pretty. I think it will allow for some nice moss growth over time. It wasn't intentional, though. I believe it is a matter of the pump being a bit oversized for the pond. It is 3000 gallons per hour and is pretty robust. When we first turned it on, the waterfall worked just as planned, but then started to expand. I think about the Aquascape guys discussing "water in motion." It is powerful! It is ok now. We like the look and the sound and it's functioning fine. But I suspect that those areas will really ice over in winter and possibly allow water to escape. @Lisak1 The pump pipe is underwater where it attaches in the pump vault. Then it comes up, out and over -- "exposed" for about 2 to 3 feet, then it goes back underground to attach to the bottom of the biofalls. It's weird but it was the best job I could do of keeping it high and sort of enclosed in a fold of liner as much as possible.
You can see it over to the left during construction - kind of in front of the little granite pagoda.
@GBBUDD there is a lot of seepage from the waterfall pool down through the various rocks into the pond. It isn't a problem because the water stays in the pond and all the little different "trickle points" look pretty. I think it will allow for some nice moss growth over time. It wasn't intentional, though. I believe it is a matter of the pump being a bit oversized for the pond. It is 3000 gallons per hour and is pretty robust. When we first turned it on, the waterfall worked just as planned, but then started to expand. I think about the Aquascape guys discussing "water in motion." It is powerful! It is ok now. We like the look and the sound and it's functioning fine. But I suspect that those areas will really ice over in winter and possibly allow water to escape. @Lisak1 The pump pipe is underwater where it attaches in the pump vault. Then it comes up, out and over -- "exposed" for about 2 to 3 feet, then it goes back underground to attach to the bottom of the biofalls. It's weird but it was the best job I could do of keeping it high and sort of enclosed in a fold of liner as much as possible.
You can see it over to the left during construction - kind of in front of the little granite pagoda.
If it's literally exposed I would just bury it. Even it fi means mounding it , Just add some dirt on top and then pile on the mulch for the winter. Our bog plumbing is exposed where it comes up to the top of the wall and then back down to the bottom of the bog. I just keep it well mulched and have some plants growing over it. In my case it's a creeping yew, but anything that will help hold leaves and snow in place over winter will give you some insulation on that pipe. If you're REALLY worried, go to a garden center (or probably even a local farmer where dad is located) and get a few bales of STRAW. (Don't get hay as it tends to be full of weed seed. Straw is much cleaner.) Either just stack them up to insulate that pipe or break them down into "slices" (you'll see what I mean when you do it) and pile them on that pipe. In the spring dad can break the bales up to use as mulch around the garden. Great stuff.
You'll see people here using bales to insulate their mobile homes or campers for the winter and out in the country you'll even see folks stacking bales along their exposed basement walls to help insulate. When we had big dogs we would get half a dozen bales in the fall and stack them up. Come spring, we'd spread those bales in big thick "slices" on the grass for the dogs so they weren't walking in mud and destroying the grass at the same time. Once the grass started t grow it would grow right through the straw. In early spring the birds were all over it, carrying it off to add to their nest.
You'll see people here using bales to insulate their mobile homes or campers for the winter and out in the country you'll even see folks stacking bales along their exposed basement walls to help insulate. When we had big dogs we would get half a dozen bales in the fall and stack them up. Come spring, we'd spread those bales in big thick "slices" on the grass for the dogs so they weren't walking in mud and destroying the grass at the same time. Once the grass started t grow it would grow right through the straw. In early spring the birds were all over it, carrying it off to add to their nest.
But that is good food for thought. We could maybe come up with something to insulate it. I am worried about how much the waterfall area (with all the different little trickles here, there and everywhere) would freeze. I think it might create ice dams that would eventually cause water loss.
But thank you for the idea to insulate!
But thank you for the idea to insulate!
An easy way to deal with the extreme cold is to use heat tape but dont' wrap the pipe like most do . Just run the wire on the bottom the length of the exposed area . but with 3000 gph i don't think you'll have an issue with pipes.
but i do question if you do have to shut down the pond for a freeze your pipe coming into the bottom of the bio falls this is going to back siphon and empty it. Or did you place a check valve , but being at the bottom of the bio falls i question if some debris won't get stuck in the check valve and hold it open
but i do question if you do have to shut down the pond for a freeze your pipe coming into the bottom of the bio falls this is going to back siphon and empty it. Or did you place a check valve , but being at the bottom of the bio falls i question if some debris won't get stuck in the check valve and hold it open
We do have a check valve.
The pipe isn't truly exposed - as in, accessible. I have the above ground area sort of hidden in a liner fold and rocked over and foamed in.
In this picture, the above ground section of pipe is almost dead center. See the medium sized, deep purple rock - almost black? (Side note, that rock is the heaviest thing I have ever moved. I wonder what it's made of? We jokingly called it "the meteorite.")
To the left of that rock is a large, gnarly limestone boulder with lots of ripples, bumps, folds and holes. It is interesting and cool - it should be fun to tuck little plants into the voids.
The pipe is behind and immediately to the left of that limestone boulder.
To the left of that rock is a large, gnarly limestone boulder with lots of ripples, bumps, folds and holes. It is interesting and cool - it should be fun to tuck little plants into the voids.
The pipe is behind and immediately to the left of that limestone boulder.
