Pipe Size

[vertigo72]

Trust me I get off work here shortly and when I get home I am going to measure it. Now its stuck in my head as to why I have never had a flood. How can you actually measure flow in the tank or just measure the amount of piping and calculate it from there.

Just fill a bucket or container of known size with the outflow of your filter (assuming its pump fed) and time it with a stopwatch. Or drain and refill your filter if its filled with hollow media, and not rocks (otherwise its very hard to guess how much water it holds).

Alternatively, you could even use the above chart, if your return is level horizontally (so vertical pipes), measure the water height above it and look up what flow it corresponds to. If your return pipe is fitted horizontally, so the "hole" is vertical, then I dont know how to calculate it.

Either way, you will probably be surprised how much pipes/tubes and pump head reduce flow. In my pond I now have 15000 liter/h pump and a 8000L/h pump both pumping to the same filter, but I measured flow after my filter at ~7-8000L. Roughly 1/3 of their rated capacity.

 

[robertmathern]

Just fill a bucket or container of known size with the outflow of your filter (assuming its pump fed) and time it with a stopwatch. Or drain and refill your filter if its filled with hollow media, and not rocks (otherwise its very hard to guess how much water it holds).

Alternatively, you could even use the above chart, if your return is level horizontally (so vertical pipes), measure the water height above it and look up what flow it corresponds to. If your return pipe is fitted horizontally, so the "hole" is vertical, then I dont know how to calculate it.

Either way, you will probably be surprised how much pipes/tubes and pump head reduce flow. In my pond I now have 15000 liter/h pump and a 8000L/h pump both pumping to the same filter, but I measured flow after my filter at ~7-8000L. Roughly 1/3 of their rated capacity.

Not sure if I fully understand you here my overflow plumbing is a flex tube but it goes down sideways and up to the sump below. It has a max of a 24" drop. What I think I am going to do is I have the side of the tank marked in 20 gallon intervals. I have to do a water change this weekend I got 50 gallons of salt mixing right now should be ready tomorrow provided I dont have to adjust salinity. What I will do is run the flex tube into a 2" pvc pipe I have in my garage at a incline as not to flood my house (standard way I change my water) but this time I will time how long it takes to drain 50 gallons out of the sump and we will do the math from there.

 

[vertigo72]

Dont understand your setup. Do you have a gravity fed filter or pump fed? I.e., is your pump placed before or after the filter? If its gravity fed (pump after filter), then thin pipes feeding the filter would cause the water level in the filter to drop below water level of the pond (or tank). If its pump fed, water will rise above the return pipes; unless you have a pressure filter of course, then none of this applies as too thin pipes would only cause some loss of flow.

Note, if you have a gravity fed filter, you cant measure flow by timing fill rate of the filter, since its not the pump doing it, but gravity. It will fill much faster initially, as the height difference between filter bottom and pond level is much higher, causing high pressure and high flow.

 

[Andy41]

Hi Guys,

wow. I wasn't expecting what i thought would be a relatively simple question to generate so many replies. Thanks to everyone.

So i get the basic idea here - the largest size pipe i can find, and using bigger diameter pipes for the outlet to avoid the backing up problem.

But. I just can't get a clear picture in my mind how you connect a 4" sewage pipe to a filter setup. Are there special connections, seals, etc, or is everyone using the silicone / tar sealant approach?

It would be really helpful for me to see some pics of a typical setup.... can anyone give me some links?

cheers,

Andy.

 

[vertigo72]

Here are some pics I made of my filter under construction:

(ignore the weird pipes in the furthest barrel, I was just trying to raise water level to test the bulkhead seals)

As you can see, you need bulkheads. If you can find them, use curved bulkheads to make easy fitting. If you can only find straight ones, you may have to flatten the barrel with a heatgun to make a proper seal. With ~2-3" pipes that shouldnt be too hard, but with pipes as wide as what I have, it might be a challenge.

Also. its easier if you use barrels that are not tapered. then you can connect the barrels directly and not use sideways 90 elbows like I had to.

 

[Andy41]

Hi Vertigo,

Perfect. Thanks. This is exactly what i needed.

Now i just have to source them I live in Austria, and nope of the DIY places i've visited have anything like that.... i'll just have to look harder!

cheers,

Andy.

 

[vertigo72]

I tend to buy much of my stuff here:
http://www.nikoi.nl/catalog/

They are situated in the netherlands but ship across europe. Shipping is free to belgium, but Im not sure what it would cost to austria. They sell everything you need, including those curved bulkheads in 110mm. Their english site is a bit knackered, but with your knowledge of german you may find your way around. If not, feel free to ask me or shoot them an email. They have excellent service. Here is a 110mm curved bulkhead:
http://www.nikoi.nl/catalog/doorvoer-voor-rond-budget-p-435.html

Id get my pipes in a DIY shop though. Im sure in Austria people need sewage and rain gutters too.

 

[Andy41]

Excellent. Thanks.

Actually, i should have said, i'm an English guy living in Austria, so i wouldn't assume that my knowledge of German will get me around that site But a lot of the words look similar, and the pictures help. :lol:

cheers,

Andy.

 

[robertmathern]

Dont understand your setup. Do you have a gravity fed filter or pump fed? I.e., is your pump placed before or after the filter? If its gravity fed (pump after filter), then thin pipes feeding the filter would cause the water level in the filter to drop below water level of the pond (or tank). If its pump fed, water will rise above the return pipes; unless you have a pressure filter of course, then none of this applies as too thin pipes would only cause some loss of flow.

Note, if you have a gravity fed filter, you cant measure flow by timing fill rate of the filter, since its not the pump doing it, but gravity. It will fill much faster initially, as the height difference between filter bottom and pond level is much higher, causing high pressure and high flow.

I am trying to attach a pic of the set up in question. As you can see it is a 180 gallon tank with a standard 75 gal below. The pump is below the tank pumping water up to the tank then the water goes down my overflows on the sides of the tank. So yeah they are gravity fed

 

[vertigo72]

You are pumping 2500 gallon per hour in a 180 gallon tank? Woha. Are there any fish in there?

 

[robertmathern]

Dude thats just from the return pump I have power heads(circulation pumps) in there all in all there is just shy of 10,000 gph in there. There are fish had a little bamboo shark but it died when the tank got electrocuted a few months back. Its a reef tank and the corals need high flow to survive. High flow and even higher lighting.

 

[vertigo72]

I know nothing about reef tanks, but seeing how a 6000 gallon per hour circulation pump turns my 15K pond in to a giant whirlpool, I hate to think what your fish go through lol. If they stop swimming for just a second they would get like squashed ?

 

[robertmathern]

I know nothing about reef tanks, but seeing how a 6000 gallon per hour circulation pump turns my 15K pond in to a giant whirlpool, I hate to think what your fish go through lol. If they stop swimming for just a second they would get like squashed ?

haha I used to think that to when I first set the tank up but you would be surprised they look like there is no flow in there. Just think of the reefs in our oceans with all the waves crashing down on them thats alot of water movement so these fish are accustomed to it. Its there natural habitat. Its a glass box so it is hard to get a giant whirlpool in there but here sure are some nice sized ripples at the surface and almost impossible to keep the sand on the bottom of the tank. And every so often there is a nice funnel in there but it all helps with gas exchange and that helps to keep nitrates in check.

 

[addy1]

Yeah try diving, you are constantly being thrown into the coral. Have to stay buoyant enough to not hurt the coral reefs. Always seems worse if it the fire coral...............

 

[fishin4cars]

I am trying to attach a pic of the set up in question. As you can see it is a 180 gallon tank with a standard 75 gal below. The pump is below the tank pumping water up to the tank then the water goes down my overflows on the sides of the tank. So yeah they are gravity fed

Love to see a better pic of your reef system, Looks nice from what little I can see.
#1 I serously doubt your pushing full capacity flow rate considering head, not sure what pump your using but on my 225 reef I had many years ago we checked and my magnetic drive pumps were rated at 2250gph but in reality I was getting about 1300 per pump. (2), I ended up running one pump per trickle tower and had them both dump into a 40 gallon custom tank with the venturi skimmer in the 40 gallon tank, 4 - 1000 gph power heads and a wave maker contoller so that two would come on for ten minutes and then the other two. worked well until someone accidently turned the AC off and heater on one summer. came in to the worse smell I ever smelled in my life!!!! Four 12" giant clams, 30+ 2-3 year old corals, several inverts and about a dozen fish, We actually could not stay in the room more than a few minutes at a time to get it all out of the tank. Took weeks to get the smell out of the room. That was the end of reef keeping for me. Still love to go wish and have thought about a smaller one but ponding has pretty much taken care of that thinking....LOL