450 gallons, and i added 200g sodium bicarbonate,
ph balancing
- Thread starter mogsie
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add 226 grams or 8 ounces that should bring it up to about 140 ppm
ok i will give that a try, thanks dodad
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The huge bags of baking soda (14 lbs or so) they sale at costco have written on the bag how much to add to raise your ph by x if it is x based on the gallons. I have used that to bring my pond up. Our well is acidic ph around 5 from the well.
j.w said:
Calcium carbonate is a major building block to string algae. If you rub string algae in your hands, you will feel a grainy texture. Calcium Carbonate is what you are feeling. Calcium carbonate is usually leached from Concrete or limestone
Ph is a tough one, but what most people don't understand is that it is more complicated then just adding a substance. In order to control Ph you must first control the nitrification process.
Nitrification reaction
NH4+ + 1.83 O2 + 1.97 HCO3- --> 0.0244 C5H702N + 0.976 N03 + 2.90 H2O + 1.86 CO2
This Stoichiometric equation reveals that for every gram of ammonia converted into nitrate 4.8 grams of dissolved oxygen
7.05 grams of alkalinity are consumed
5.85 grams of carbon dioxide is produced.
There are a few more variables to the equation; however, they are not important for what we need to know.
If the nitrification process is not functioning correctly your ph should constantly be dropping because this process is an acid forming process and if the biofilter system's water is poorly buffered, the system pH will decline and affect the biofilter performance
the nitrification process works best when your alkalinity is slightly above 150ppm. tests have been done that shows when alkalinity drops below 100 ppm the levels of ammonia-nitrogen increase significantly. I can't print of the graph due to copy write laws, but here is the citation
loyless, C.L., Malone, R.F., 1997. A Sodium Bicarbonate dosing Methodology for PH Management in freshwater recirculating aquaculture systems, Prog. Fish Cult. 59:198-205
In my experience trying to control the ph directly is a pain in the behind. control the nitrification process and the ph will look after itself.
if your system is working correctly your ph should constantly be dropping and this is why you must add baking soda. rule of thumb is 250g of baking soda for every 1lb of feed.
Nitrification reaction
NH4+ + 1.83 O2 + 1.97 HCO3- --> 0.0244 C5H702N + 0.976 N03 + 2.90 H2O + 1.86 CO2
This Stoichiometric equation reveals that for every gram of ammonia converted into nitrate 4.8 grams of dissolved oxygen
7.05 grams of alkalinity are consumed
5.85 grams of carbon dioxide is produced.
There are a few more variables to the equation; however, they are not important for what we need to know.
If the nitrification process is not functioning correctly your ph should constantly be dropping because this process is an acid forming process and if the biofilter system's water is poorly buffered, the system pH will decline and affect the biofilter performance
the nitrification process works best when your alkalinity is slightly above 150ppm. tests have been done that shows when alkalinity drops below 100 ppm the levels of ammonia-nitrogen increase significantly. I can't print of the graph due to copy write laws, but here is the citation
loyless, C.L., Malone, R.F., 1997. A Sodium Bicarbonate dosing Methodology for PH Management in freshwater recirculating aquaculture systems, Prog. Fish Cult. 59:198-205
In my experience trying to control the ph directly is a pain in the behind. control the nitrification process and the ph will look after itself.
if your system is working correctly your ph should constantly be dropping and this is why you must add baking soda. rule of thumb is 250g of baking soda for every 1lb of feed.
thanks for the informative reply calgary, however my pond is less than 3 weeks old and the water temperature hasnt risen above 44.5 f, and the ph has only just risen to 7, so the nitrification process wont have started yet, yes i understand that a reduction in alkalinity may occur during nitrification due to the significant amount of bicarbonate consumed in the conversion of ammonia to nitrite,however even in an established pond if nitrification was to reduce alkalinity to a ph lower than 7 the nitrification cycle would rapidly decrease if not stop as nitrifying bacteria are very sensitive to ph, Nitrosomonas has an
optimal pH between approximately 7.0 and 8.0, and the optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is approximately 7.5 to 8.0. these being the 2 main cultures in the nitrification process.
anyways my water was acidic right from the start, i live in a very acidic area with acidic soil and acidic rain, i live in a soft water area with low KH, so thus why i am filtering my water through limestone chippings and adding sodium bicarbonate to raise the PH, dont understand your ratio of bicarbonate to 1lb of feed ?? thanks
optimal pH between approximately 7.0 and 8.0, and the optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is approximately 7.5 to 8.0. these being the 2 main cultures in the nitrification process.
anyways my water was acidic right from the start, i live in a very acidic area with acidic soil and acidic rain, i live in a soft water area with low KH, so thus why i am filtering my water through limestone chippings and adding sodium bicarbonate to raise the PH, dont understand your ratio of bicarbonate to 1lb of feed ?? thanks
the ratio has to do with what feed produces. the amount of ammonia fish produce is directly related to their waste which is directly related to how much they eat. The baking soda is replenishing the alkalinity that is consumed during the nitrification. for every gram of ammonia 7.5 grams of alkalinity is consumed. it is just a way to maintain alkalinity relative to feed. you can't control one water parameter with out affecting the others.
My ph out of the tap is 8.5
my kh is less than 17.9 ppm.
my kh is less than 17.9 ppm.
so why do some people say that sodium bicarbonate acts as a buffer and locks your ph at approx 8 ? surely then this would depend on the amount and size of fish in relation to how much food they consume? and the calculator for determining how much soda is used only asks for pond size in gallons and requires no information on how much food is consumed ??Calgary_Aquaculture said:
may i add that there are no fish in my pond as yet and i needed to raise the ph before i can introduce any ! now when the tenperature increases and fish are introduced and the nitrification cycle is working (reducing the alkilinity) algae of some form will inevitably grow and the photosytheseis of algae increases alkalinity, so that should replace some and as should the limestone that my water is filtred through, and i will see how that balances out !
I have been thinking about you needing to increase your pH, it is odd. mostly because ph is much more difficult to bring down then increase.
Have you tested for your alkalinity yet? I don't mean hardness because they too different things. to test alkalinity you will need to titrate.
Hardness and Alkalinity are not the same thing, but can be similar when the water has originated from limestone because they are both expressed in CaCO3.
in chemical terms hardness is the total concentration of calcium, iron, and manganese and is commonly used in terms of waters ability to precipitate soap.
Alkalinity is a measure of the Ph-buffering capacity or the acid neutralizing capacity of water or expressed as the total amount of titratable bases in water. The principle ions that contribute to Alkalinity are carbonate and bicarbonate.
I like baking soda because it has a high solubility, where limestone is moderate and also contributes to string algae growth.
Measure your Alkalinity to 160ppm - 170ppm and then take your ph.
There are a few more variables but they are much more complicated.
Honestly almost every pond I have tested in Calgary has a pH upwards of 10, they have very poor nitrification function and are mostly built out of limestone. there tested alkalinity was over 200 in a lot of cases.
Have you tested for your alkalinity yet? I don't mean hardness because they too different things. to test alkalinity you will need to titrate.
Hardness and Alkalinity are not the same thing, but can be similar when the water has originated from limestone because they are both expressed in CaCO3.
in chemical terms hardness is the total concentration of calcium, iron, and manganese and is commonly used in terms of waters ability to precipitate soap.
Alkalinity is a measure of the Ph-buffering capacity or the acid neutralizing capacity of water or expressed as the total amount of titratable bases in water. The principle ions that contribute to Alkalinity are carbonate and bicarbonate.
I like baking soda because it has a high solubility, where limestone is moderate and also contributes to string algae growth.
Measure your Alkalinity to 160ppm - 170ppm and then take your ph.
There are a few more variables but they are much more complicated.
Honestly almost every pond I have tested in Calgary has a pH upwards of 10, they have very poor nitrification function and are mostly built out of limestone. there tested alkalinity was over 200 in a lot of cases.
i think it is due to me living in an acidic area, everytime it rains it is adding acidity to the water ! as of now i have only tested kh and obviously daily ph checks ! my ph is rising slowly since i added the limestone chippings, i started off at 5.5 and i am at 7 now over the space of 2 weeks, and the limestone should raise my KH & GH as it dissolves, i havent added more sodium bicarbonate yet, maybe wont need to, a GH test should show levels of calcium and magnesium shouldnt it ? dont think i need to go too deep into the water chemistry, i dont need to maintain the water quality required for koi, i only need it stable enough to keep a couple of goldfish and a few shubunkins happy and healthy,
my ex-boss has a 400 gallon pond with about 10 fish in there, some up to 9 inches long and he has never done a water test (for anything) and hasnt done any partial water changes or used any additives in 3 years, and his fish are disease free and happy !!!!
i would just like to be safe and make sure that the water is right for them before i introduce them to the pond !
my ex-boss has a 400 gallon pond with about 10 fish in there, some up to 9 inches long and he has never done a water test (for anything) and hasnt done any partial water changes or used any additives in 3 years, and his fish are disease free and happy !!!!
i would just like to be safe and make sure that the water is right for them before i introduce them to the pond !
hey calgary i know ime going to sound stupid and dumb but ive just been out and ph tested the rain !! and much to my surprise it is 7 !! tested my pond while i was there and it is now at 7.5 got a few weeks before the temp is right for fish so gives me time to see how well it stabalises !
you don't sound stupid, There are so many variables that influence water parameters. most of them are dependent upon one an other. I test every pond I service for a lot of different parameters and when I first started doing this, the testing took a lot of time. now it is quick and easy. try not to use those test strips if you can.
words of wisdom: Everything is easy when you know what you are doing. This goes from baking cookies to rocket science.
words of wisdom: Everything is easy when you know what you are doing. This goes from baking cookies to rocket science.
thanks for the info calgary ! i guess my neighbours think ime stupid now if they seen me standing in the rain with a dish above my head !!