opinion on pond floor substrate

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OK so here is my reason for asking,, have you ever had an issue with your liner floating up after heavy rains
being as this is our first pond I read where this can happen if you don't put something in the bottom
also I have some huge folds in my liner that will stand up if not held down with something
I just have some big rocks on the folds right now
 
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A liner can float even with rocks/gravel on it if water gets under it. You should know how high your water table is - if you're digging and hit water, you need to address that. I've seen a few pond builds where a drain with a sump had to be installed.

I've also heard of it happening when a new liner is installed over an existing liner and water gets between them. But I don't know how big of a problem it is generally speaking.

As for big folds - why so big? Every pond is going to have some folds/creases, but how big are we talking? My concern would be debris getting trapped behind the fold, or even fish.
 

Mmathis

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A liner can float even with rocks/gravel on it if water gets under it. You should know how high your water table is - if you're digging and hit water, you need to address that.

Been there, done that! We do have a high water table. Originally, the water level of my pond was at about ground level [with a berm]. If the water level dropped -- llike during a renovation -- I would get liner-float. With my renovation, I elevated the sides so that the water level is several inches above ground level so that there is enough weight [pressure] from the water to keep the liner down.

And, yes, when it would float, even putting rocks down didn't help. The float didn't go away until I added more water.
 

Mmathis

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I didn't catch the part about the folds -- thanks @Lisak1 It can take some work, but it's best to work the folds out! IOW, turn the large folds into many smaller folds.
 
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Awww... thanks @Big Lou!

Here's a related question for all of you who either don't have gravel/rock bottoms or had them but took them out due to muck/gunk/debris accumulation... what exactly IS all the gunk building up on the bottom of your ponds? Where does all that stuff come from? Organic material I can see - leaves blow in, your pond plants drop dead material into the pond... that I get. We net it out, and what we can't get with the net breaks down very quickly into a fine silt, which then breaks down even further into... well, nothing. I assume that's what gets consumed by all the microscopic critters that live in the pond and the snails that creep around the bottom. But other than that - is it fish poop?

Because here's a weird fact - in all the many hours of feeding and watching (and yes, even wading with) our fish, I have NEVER seen one poop. We had aquariums years ago (my husband has loved fish since he was a boy) and one of my least favorite things was seeing the fish swim around trailing poop for MILES. Not pretty. But we literally NEVER see our fish poop - ever. Nor do we ever see fish poop in the pond. Now maybe you might say "oh, your fish are very modest and they all go poop in the tunnel!" Well, guess what? I stick my feet in there too! And I've used my little underwater camera to film and poked around in the tunnel - what? I'M CURIOUS! - and nothing! So what's the deal? WHERE ARE YOU GUYS GETTING ALL YOUR GUNK?!?

And one more fact that I'll share - this is not just my pond that looks like this or @Meyer Jordan 's pond. I have seen dozens of ecosystem ponds that look exactly the same. Gravel on the bottom. No muck. No gunk. No debris. Some have bio-falls. Some have bogs. But all were clear to the bottom. So it's not an anomaly is my only point. It is indeed possible to have a clean pond with a rock/gravel bottom.

As a side note - the gravel you see in my pond is not deep. I would guess it's less than an inch deep, maybe even less than that. When you consider a rubber lined pond as opposed to a natural dirt bottomed pond, the one thing you don't have in a lined pond is that interaction with the soil underneath. So where a natural pond could sustain a much deeper substrate, I think a rubber lined pond would suffer if the gravel were too deep. That's just an opinion though. Someone may tell me I'm all wet on that one!
 

springknee

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I just found out that my pond is to deep. I either need to add rock or ? to make it the right depth. Or fence it which I don't want to do. Any suggestions and what type of rock would be best?
 

Meyer Jordan

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I think a rubber lined pond would suffer if the gravel were too deep.
You are absolutely correct. This is why gravel bottom ponds got such a bad 'Rep'. Uneducated builders, amateurs and professionals, will put 4 - 6 inches of gravel in the bottom of a pond. This is entirely to much and will quickly become anaerobic towards the bottom of this layer causing many issues. A 2' layer of gravel, preferably a mix of #57 and egg rock, is sufficient and beneficial.
 

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I just found out that my pond is to deep. I either need to add rock or ? to make it the right depth. Or fence it which I don't want to do. Any suggestions and what type of rock would be best?

How much too deep? Are we talking inches or feet?
 

addy1

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I left what folds I had sticking up so nothing would get trapped behind them, over time they start to look like rock edges.

Here are a few shots from 2014, which shows the folds

Capture.JPG
Capture1.JPG
 

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