One fall or two?

[bagsmom]

Hey gang!
My equipment should come this weekend and I plan to start digging on Monday! Woooo! I thought I would get opinions from you experts. I have been looking at books, watching videos, and generally overloading my brain with information.

My original inspiration has been the 8 x 11 fish pond in the Pond Digger's How to Build a Fish Pond video series. He explains everything so thoroughly, I have a certain level of comfort with doing something like that, which is -- a medium sized waterfall dropping into the pond from one spill stone.

Yesterday, I saw something that was quite nice, and I'm considering switching gears (just a tiny bit.) Here is the question: assuming I have enough liner, could I turn the one waterfall into two small falls, by making a very small pool between the two? (I'm talking a "pool" the size of a turkey platter or something.) Terracing the fall area, so to speak?

I have a Big Frog Eco Drive 3000 in the skimmer and a Savio Living Ponds F100 waterfall filter on the way. I know I couldn't significantly change the plan or the waterfall height without perhaps needing a different pump. But would a small change like this mess up the way everything functions together?

I know it's a matter of preference, from the standpoint of aesthetics and sound. I have always loved the small falls that pop up here and there in the Smoky Mountains. When I saw the double spill point falls, that's what it reminded me of.

What do you think? Something nice to do? A mistake? Stick with a single fall or the pump can't handle it?

I'd love to hear your thoughts!!!!

 

[Mmathis]

If I understand what you're wanting to do...... As long as you have enough head pressure with your pump to compensate for the extra height, I don't see that it would be an issue. My understanding is that the more movement and splashing, the more O2 in the water, so go for it if you can!

Now see, aren't you glad you didn't jump head first into the pond build? You've given yourself more than enough opportunity to think, re-think, plan, re-plan...... Smart girl!

 

[myswtsins]

I also used the pond digger videos to help me build my pond! Huge help! I say go for 2 falls, if that is what you like visually (I do). I think a pool the size of a turkey platter might be tricky though. I assume you are going so small due to liner restrictions? Do you know what your total head is going to be yet? If you are not increasing the height of the falls or plumbing before the first fall it won't affect the pump required at all. Once the water leaves the first drop off the pump is basically irrelevant so if you have one single drop or 20 after that it doesn't matter.

 

[bagsmom]

I also used the pond digger videos to help me build my pond! Huge help! I say go for 2 falls, if that is what you like visually (I do). I think a pool the size of a turkey platter might be tricky though. I assume you are going so small due to liner restrictions? Do you know what your total head is going to be yet? If you are not increasing the height of the falls or plumbing before the first fall it won't affect the pump required at all. Once the water leaves the first drop off the pump is basically irrelevant so if you have one single drop or 20 after that it doesn't matter.

I think if anything, it might change the height by 3 inches or so.

I know I should know all that stuff about "head" but I don't. I told the pond store owner what I was doing and he recommended the pump. It's all coming this weekend, so I guess I will see! I will get out my pond books and do some calculations to make sure -- before I hook anything up.

 

[myswtsins]

3ins is nothing to worry about. (Although I always suggest a bigger pump/turnover rate than needed)

Average goal is about 100gph per in of linear falls, ex. a 12in wide fall would need 1200 gph. You can go less or more though if you like it slower or faster but that's a good starter guideline. I have 3,000+ gph going through a 18" opening and the same amount going through a 36" opening further down stream, all looks good.

Head - any vertical rise above water level is a foot of head (top of waterfall spillway is 3ft higher then the water level where the pump is equals 3 ft of head). Add 1 foot for every 10ft of horizontal piping and I THINK it is 1/2 a foot per fitting (elbow, wye, tee, valve etc).

I struggled and stressed over the exact "flow" of my falls and it all turned out fine needing no adjustments, all that worry for nothing. Just get a ballpark idea and it'll all work out!

 

[Mmathis]

I think if anything, it might change the height by 3 inches or so.

I know I should know all that stuff about "head" but I don't. I told the pond store owner what I was doing and he recommended the pump. It's all coming this weekend, so I guess I will see! I will get out my pond books and do some calculations to make sure -- before I hook anything up.

Way back in one of your very first posts, I drew a picture for you [I'm such a great artist, LOL!] trying to explain head pressure, and I think someone else might have added to that. Or....at least....I think it was you.....I drew the picture for. Oh my!

But a few inches isn't going to make a difference.

 

[bagsmom]

Way back in one of your very first posts, I drew a picture for you [I'm such a great artist, LOL!] trying to explain head pressure, and I think someone else might have added to that. Or....at least....I think it was you.....I drew the picture for. Oh my!

But a few inches isn't going to make a difference.

I think that was you, too! Sadly, anything that involves numbers just scrambles my sad old brain. I can spell like a champion and words come easily -- but numbers -- no.

I will have to get one of my kids! The 16 year old is in BC calculus (the harder one. Who knew there were levels of difficulty in calculus??? ALL hard to me!) so surely he can be my math assistant!

 

[bagsmom]

I also used the pond digger videos to help me build my pond! Huge help! I say go for 2 falls, if that is what you like visually (I do). I think a pool the size of a turkey platter might be tricky though. I assume you are going so small due to liner restrictions? Do you know what your total head is going to be yet? If you are not increasing the height of the falls or plumbing before the first fall it won't affect the pump required at all. Once the water leaves the first drop off the pump is basically irrelevant so if you have one single drop or 20 after that it doesn't matter.

Weellll, the turkey platter idea is mostly a way to add a level to the fall, without changing the size of the pond too much -- or extending out past my predetermined pond site. Maybe hula-hoop size or a tad smaller? Just a little basin for the water to collect in before dropping down again. I was thinking I could put pea gravel in it and attract little birds. Maybe put a couple of plants in it at the sides. I know one plant isn't going to serve as an effective bog, but it would still be pretty.

Of course, once I get out there with my shovel, everything could change! LOL For the better, or for the worse!

 

[tbendl]

I'm coming in late but depending on how high you are going you might want to be aware of splash. If you have a big drop and a little pool at the bottom, you might risk losing a lot of water to splash down.
I am doing something similar only larger platter. The top will be where my filter sits, the second step will be a falls and then into the pond is a very shallow drop.

 

[sissy]

If you ordered enough liner or can over lap another liner far enough you can do it I put my filter tank inside my pond liner and did a waterfall pond .

 

[Meyer Jordan]

According to the performance chart for this pump, at 5 foot elevation you will still have about 2600 gph. This is more than enough to feed a 24" wide waterfall with a decent cascade.

Your 'turkey platter' idea would be better if larger and should have a little depth to it to minimize any splashing from the primary waterfall.

 

[tbendl]

I guess I need to look at this for my pumps and possibly narrowing the second fall.
Hmmmm

 

[bagsmom]

According to the performance chart for this pump, at 5 foot elevation you will still have about 2600 gph. This is more than enough to feed a 24" wide waterfall with a decent cascade.
View attachment 94964
Your 'turkey platter' idea would be better if larger and should have a little depth to it to minimize any splashing from the primary waterfall.

Thank you!!!!!
In my mind, my turkey platter is big. I like turkey! LOL But yes, bigger than that. I couldn't think of anything else at the time. Maybe an oval hula hoop?
I'm really excited to get going!!!!!

 

[bagsmom]

I'm coming in late but depending on how high you are going you might want to be aware of splash. If you have a big drop and a little pool at the bottom, you might risk losing a lot of water to splash down.
I am doing something similar only larger platter. The top will be where my filter sits, the second step will be a falls and then into the pond is a very shallow drop.
View attachment 94963

That's going to be gorgeous!

 

[sissy]

but remember look at the energy consumption chart for the pump .If it costs way to much to run is it worth the cost .I have seen pumps that use almost 850 watts and more .I looked at the cost of running it 24/7 and almost fainted .It would cost more than running my heat pump for 1 night on reserve heat on the coldest night .Imagine that 24/7