Thankyou again,I am not doing anymore salt baths,my feeling is that if it was going to do anything then the 2 I have alreadly done would be enough,I am going to buy some water conditioner and some stuff to help the good bacterier in my filters,I am taking a water sample to a koi centre for them to test it.I do get upset easily and if you knew me you would all understand where i am coming from,I mean well but sometimes don't say the right things or at the right time,sorry if i upset anyone .What winds me up is that for the first 25 years of his life he was in a tiny pond,I hardly ever changed the water and i cleaned the filters out when i thought about it and he went from a few ounces to 11lb,he was in there with a few goldfish,but i never had any problems,moved down here and now he has a mate the same size(well a bit bigger) and loads of room to swim round in,but in the 4 years i had this pond i have had problems every year and had to add cemicals for one thing or another,but not this year,I think that thats the answer ,it takes at least 3 years for a new pond to get settled ,and as you said this all might help someone else in the future,the koi place said as a last resort they have something to put in a tub of water and send him to sleep,thats the hard bit ,it will be up to me to make the decision just like i have had to with all my other babys (dogs and cats) and thats why i cant have any more pets,they break your heart