Newbie with Many Questions

[lisa202]

Hi,
Thanks for the coupon info. I went on their site but I didn't see a link for a coupon...maybe they have it on a certain day? I'll look for them. I wish I had one last week when we bought the filters and pump, that would have been a good savings.

This weekend we'll be getting the flat stones for the waterfall and the front of the pond...those are very expensive too.

I hope to be done soon to send a photo.
Talk to you later

 

[bbchin]

The coupon is in their Special Offers box. It is on the bottom of their home page next to Calender of events.

Take care and be well.

 

[lisa202]

thanks!!

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Hi, It is a great place! We plan on getting our fish from them. We liked the 5 inch koi. We only have a 4x8 pond which comes to roughly 600 gallons so it is recommended to only have 50 inches of fish. I'm guessing that koi are just like goldfish in that they will only grow to the capacity of the pond. So if I were to only get 2, then they would grow big, but if I get 5, they'll only grow a little...which is ok with me. I'd rather have a bunch of different little ones than 2 big ones. I also want to get a bunch of tadpoles.

How many fish do you have?

I'm sure there are other pond places on the island to find that lotus flower you're looking for. We just started, so we haven't looked into other places yet.

A lady (customer) there told me a trick that she does with plants (since they are expensive, they die and fish may eat them) ...she goes to Michaels and gets fake ones and sticks them in here and there and she says they look real. Some people would really frown at this, but I wouldn't mind trying it if I really wanted a certain plant and couldn't have it live because my pond is in shade and the plant needed sun. This same lady also said that the more fish you have the dirtier the water gets and the more maintenance there is...so I plan on less fish for that reason alone.

Another idea I had...We are using a liner, so you see the rubber around the pool...so I bought sheet moss (at a wholesaler...let me know if you want some) and I'm putting that around the rocks to hide dirt and liner.

I'll post a photo as soon as we're done. I think we'll be finished this weekend...we're in the process of putting stones down and configuring the waterfall. It's going to sound great and I hope attract a lot of birds

Maybe we'll bump into each other at Sherers and not even know it. :fingersx:

My husband and I are also new to the Koi pond adventures and will be posting several questions. But I was reading through this post and thought that I would mention that everything that I have read and researched online says that neither koi nor goldfish grow to the size of their enviroment. That you can stunt their growth and it will eventually lead to sick and unhappy fish. Over the weekend we went to a local pond store and found koi that were 24" long.

I know that these fish can be expensive for ones that size and the smaller koi are pricey also and I would hate for anyone to lose fish.

It might be worth doing more research.

Hope this is helpful in your fish adventures.

 

[koikeepr]

this is very well stated hopefulkoikeeper! Your words lead me to believe you will be a successful pond owner!

 

[bbchin]

Thank you for the information. I have been googling and receiving anecdotal advice, and it gets a little confusing. I hope to learn more as I take care of the pond this year and the years to come. Wish me luck.

 

[lisa202]

Hi hopefulkoikeeper and koikeepr...
Thanks for your advice but I'm a little confused...you wrote...

"that neither koi nor goldfish grow to the size of their enviroment. That you can stunt their growth and it will eventually lead to sick and unhappy fish."

...is this saying that I should put less in to allow them to grow bigger or that it wouldn't make a difference.? and then why would fish stay small and become sickly?

Our pond is approx. 8x4 and 30" deep. what number of fish would you suggest?

Thanks!!

 

[koikeepr]

you put in less fish, yes. You need to account for their full grown size--not the fingerling size you are buying them at now.

After year 3, koi that are in too small a pond take on a funny shape with big heads and small bodies, because they have been stunted. They also don't do well from a health perspective.

You could probably do 3 koi in the pond you describe (accounting for their full grown 24" size. Or you could do many goldfish, which don't require as much space. You could easily do a dozen goldfish accounting for their full grown size.

 

[lisa202]

I forgot to add...

I read that in a 500 gallon pond (i have approx 600 gallons) that you shouldn't have over 50 inches of fish. So if I got 2 small ones, would I have to wait many years for them to be 24"?

 

[lisa202]

thanks Koikeepr,
how long does it take a 5" koi to grow to 24"? Do they all grow that big?

and what do you think about pond vacuums? we have some dirt on the bottom (from testing and re-testing our waterfall) We've tried to get in there and scoop it out but it's almost impossible. We just ordered a vacuum that works with the garden hose. We're getting mixed thoughts from people.

 

[koikeepr]

Lisa, you wouldn't want a 24" fish in 600 gallons. Like sticking a horse in a dog house. In 2-3 seasons, a koi can reach half it's full grown size. It's fairly normal for a koi in their second summer of life to be 12+ inches easily. They are fast growing.

What happens in a small pond, is that they just get stunted. Keep in mind that koi/carp are river fish. They need space to swim--and they do swim fast! Basically, if you are bent on koi, you will need to rehome them after 3 or so years and start all over again with a fingerling. It's just not fair to a koi to be in a small body of water where it can't grow to it's full potential.

The average koi grows from 18-24", yes. There are plenty that are even bigger. It's sort of like asking of a Great Dane puppy, "do they all really get that big?" Yes, on average the Dane puppy will grow up to be a very large dog give or take a few inches/pounds. It's just the standard of the breed--same with koi.

Goldfish adapt better to smaller spaces and will do better with regard to health/body shape when in confines. They don't take on that funny stunted look, they just kinda stay smaller versions of themselves.

Vacuums are great. I've used the ones with the garden hose, and they are fairly junky and hard to maneuever. For a quick job you might be okay. I have the Oase PondVac 3. It is not cheap, but does a great job. You could also rig up a wet dry vac to act as a pond vac, the only negative is that you have to open it and empty it when it fills up.

 

[lisa202]

Thanks so much for the great advice.
I think it will be best if I stay with goldfish rather than koi...I don't want the poor things to be cramped and unhappy.

Thanks for the vacuum advice, I'll check which one we ordered. At least I now know that a vacuum can work. We were told that they don't work and to empty the pond completely to clean the dirt out of the bottom (which I thought was a little extreme)

One last thing...can goldfish stay in the pond in the winter like the koi?

 

[koikeepr]

Yes, goldfish are winter hardy and can often withstand fluctuating temps much better than koi can.

You've got a number of options. Sarassa goldfish look like kohaku (red/white) koi and are often referred to as "poor man's koi." They get nice and big without getting enormous. They are very lively and have a great hot red color. You can find 'em easily at Petsmart or pond shops really inexpensively. There's Shubunkin if you like the red, white, black speckled look. Of course, you've got your standard comets, too. If you want to get really fancy with flowy fins, you've got watonai or wakin (which are harder to come by), and usually have to be bought at a breeder.

 

[lisa202]

I want to thank you for all the help you have given me. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my questions with sincere patience. I know that this info is out there if I do my research but I have gotten contradictory info on the few sites that I've been to. I trust your knowledge and expertise... I was a little disappointed that I wasn't going to get koi, but you gave me great options. Again, thanks so much!! I'll post a photo when we're done.

 

[koikeepr]

No sweat. We are here to help. You shouldn't be disappointed. Wait until you see the great variety of goldfish colors you can get. Plus, they are less picky about water quality, less expensive and just as fun. Like I said, you can get small koi, but don't fall in love with any of 'em, because after a few years you'll need to rehome them if you really want 'em to be happy and healthy.