New Pond

[phillyofish]

I'm thinking of doing a pond with 3 feet below and maybe a foot above with retaining wall stones. here are the questions that I have.

1.Has anyone used Dupont liner, saw it at a local nursery. it doesnt have a mil count.
2. Does a pond that is 16' long by 4' wide with the deep end being 4' (3' below ground) allow for koi?
3. What gallon/hr rating of a pump should i get?

 

[hammer1320]

It would depend on where you live. If you add your location in your user info, people could help you better. Whats ok in Calli isnt ok in Ohio where we get sub degree temps.

From your measurements, I get 1900 gallons. You take your length x width = surface area x depth = cubic foot x 7.5 (HOW MANY GALLONS ARE IN A CUBIC FOOT)= gallons.

Ive heard mixed emotions on koi. Some say at least 50 gallons per koi, others say alot more, so size wise you will be fine just watch how many you put in there. Depth would depend on your location and your frost line.

Ive been told to use 45mil liner and it seems most people like Firestone brand. It is the most important part of your pond though so I wouldnt skimp there.

Ratings on pump would be hard to say without knowing a bunch of variables that come into play. Every foot of elevation and even vertical length of pipe decreases the flow of water the pump outputs. If a pump is rated for 2000gph thats usually right outta the pump. Add 5 foot of elevation and the pump could be putting out less than half of the stated GPH. You want to turn your water over a couple times a day so your pump gph has to be well over your actual gallons in your pond.

Sorry I couldnt be much help and most questions are still unanswered but thats just a few things Ive picked up over the month ive been on this forum. Everyone on here are very helpfull and will have you situated in no time.

 

[jason081180]

Ok lots here but here we go.

1 firestone 45mil liner is the best for most ponds. You would need one that is. 25X15 ft for your 16x4x4 pond

2. At 1900gal your pond is just big enough for Koi but only a few. They say a good stocking level is 1in of fish for each 10gal of water. With any fish you have to plan on the full size of the fish not what you buy it at. Kio get about 24in long. So 1900/10=190in of fish that’s about 8 Koi but I wouldn't do more than 5 in that pond. There are a lot of gold fish that look a lot like Kio that only get about 12 in long so you could have about twice as many in the same pond. Kio also need very clean water but goldfish will allow a lot more and some say goldfish are more cold hardy. But really stocking levels are based on tour filtering. If you over filter you can have more fish.

3 Your pump needs to do about your volume of water every hour at your head height. The head height is found by measuring the height of the water fall, or whatever kind of return you are going to have, to the top of the water. Plus the sixe and length of pipe you use has a lot to do with it.

Example
Vertical distance between pond surface level and the top of the waterfall is 3 feet. You have 20 feet of tubing between the pump and the waterfall. Using a 3,200 GPH pump with 1-1/2" tubing, your total head is approx. 5.4 feet (3 ft. + 2 x 14.4 in.). Using a 3,200 GPH pump with 2" tubing, your total head is approx. 3.8 feet (3 ft. + 2 x 4.8 in.).

So you see that the bigger tubing the more flow you get from the same pump. A 2500-3000GPH pump would do you good. But watch the watts that each pump uses. Big differences on a cheap pump vs. an expensive one. Cheap pumps use a lot of watts and you will see it on your bill expensive ones will pay for its self in one season. Mine is not much more than a regular light bulb and some use 700-800 watts to do the same thing.

What are your plans for a filter and waterfall?

Check out this site and read it over. You will have a much better understanding of it all.

 

[phillyofish]

i'm in Philly.
trying to do this on a budget. So i will be checking the DIY section for filter.
Jason - what type of pump do you use?

 

[hammer1320]

Im doing a build kind of similar but a little smaller and I have been pointed towards a Sequence extrenal pump. Wattage is very little for the ammount of output and most people seem to swear by them. The Sequence 750 series 3600-SEQ12 only pulls 140 watts. Good luck!

 

[koikeepr]

The brand of the liner isn't as much of a concern, but you need to ensure it's 45 mil. I bought mine on Ebay and it was a competitor of Firestone. You would not be able to tell the difference. Also has a lifetime warranty.

The size shape of the pond you describe is perfect for a river/stream flow design. Long and narrow. You would just taper your pond down from one side to the other. In other words, you would slowly increase the depth as you go from one side to the other. All the detrius would them flow down the hill and land at the deepest end. You could then have a retro (AquaArt) bottom drain sucking up all the poop down there (since you are on a budget, a real BD would likely be too expensive). If you don't want to go the route of a BD, then your pump (if going subermerible) would sit at the lowest end. Your waterfall (or your water output) would sit up on the highest end. You can google pond stream flow or river flow design to see what it's all about.

You need to decide if you want a submersible or external pump. Personally, external pumps mean you don't get your hands wet (or a potential shock), you don't have to haul pumps outta the water to service/clean them, and they have more power per wattage usage.

 

[phillyofish]

Koi keeper, you hit the nail on the head. i was going to step down from 2 feet to 4 feet. with 1 ft elevated. would the waterfall be best if placed in the middle of the long side?

are external pumps more efficient as far as power consumption than submersible ones?

trying to do as much DIY as possible. i keep several aquariums so i'm familiar with wet/dry systems and creating DIY filtration. Just need a good link to a decent setup.

Thanks guys appreciate all the help.

Sam

 

[koikeepr]

No, if you want a stepped-down stream effect and you want to get all the benefits of it, you need to have the waterfall on one side where the pond is shallowest and then it pushes down toward the deeper end. It is probably the most efficient way to set up a pond, and makes it extremely easy to clean. Everything slides down into one direction. It's the perfect design.

I wanted to do this, but could not put the waterfall and the skimmer opposite eachother based on my location, sadly.

Yes, external pumps are much more efficient than submersibles. They do more with less power. Check on the Sequence 750 pumps for your application. DoDad here on this site is a dealer, he will give you a much better price than what you see advertised online. He had this raging sale a few ago with an unbelieveable price on one.

We have links on DIY filtration here on our DIY section. Give it a good thorough reading, as they are stickied at the top of that forum.

 

[phillyofish]

I see that you have a semi-raised pond. what is above material that you used above ground, stone? ho high above ground is it? i was thinking going about a foot to 18". would soil hold the liner and water or do I need cinder block that is reinforced? ( meaning digging below ground to establish strength?

 

[koikeepr]

I am 18" above ground and about 20" below. I used 18" above, because that is a good seating height, and you can comfortably sit on the wall capstones to feed the fish or just hang out. But it is also high enough that it's a barrier for the kids, too.

I'm not sure what you mean by above material? My walls are in cinderblock from floor to top. It has rebar in it and cement in every cell I could fill.

Here is the thread for my build with lots of photos of exactly how I built it. Feel free to ask any questions you like.

 

[jason081180]

i'm in Philly.
trying to do this on a budget. So i will be checking the DIY section for filter.
Jason - what type of pump do you use?

I'm using the Sequence 750 series 4200SEQ12 only uses 160 watts and pumps 4200GPH.

 

[phillyofish]

my pond is less than 1500, don't you think that is too much turnover for a small pond compared to what you got.

 

[jason081180]

yes that would be a little much for you. maybe a Laguna PowerJet Max-Flo 7500 pump they are submersible and good on wattage. Maximum flow rate is 7500 LPH / 1650 GPH. uses 80 W. according to their website.

 

[phillyofish]

correct me if I'm wrong, if I don't go with a rectangular box or above ground level; I wont need to go with the cinder block? if I dig and slope it so there is a foot shorter on each side would that do?so rather than 5' at the bottom it would be 3'? The ground is sloped to one corner so I was going to level it and compact it. I will post pics with the tentative site.

 

[PS3]

i have a pond that goes about 3 feet at the deepest in the middle and the sides are like 2 & a half feet deep here is a pic of the pond back in march i now have my skippy built and runing this will give you an idea . its an oval 8x8 its about 1000 gallons or so.
its a above the ground pond but it does go below the ground
in the middle