new pond digger from central calif

[pond42sliders]

Hello CountryE,
Oh boy, do I know how well turtles can climb! Actually had to learn in a very unfortunate way. Let me just say that Mr. Turtle has thouroughly earned the name change, and now goes by Dog Bone Ninja! And, yes...what you are thinking is true. It's an absolute miracle he even survived and had to be pretty much dry docked for 8 months before being allowed to live 24/7 in his tank.
Trust me, every single rock in the pond was strategically planned and placed with turtle proofing first and foremost in mind. In fact, I had to do alot of rearranging after the initial installation was complete. All of the rocks that surround the main part of the pond are placed so that they would have to climb, or I should say cling upsidedown before they could start to climb over. I litterally spent a year planning on paper how I would design a Turtle safe environment if I built a pond for them. There is a cement border along the wood fence that is 8 inches deep and four inches wide. I wanted to make it so they had acsess to part of a stream or the waterfall, but it just wasn't something that I could do and insure their containment and out of harms way. On the back side of the waterfall are huge rocks that are flat on one side and lean inwards. Then, balanced on top are flat rocks that overlap, again something they would have to be knowing Spiderman's secrets to get out. I haven't built the surrounding fence yet, but it has been planned for Turtle Proofing, also...just in case.
So back to the bog. I've desided to make it more shallow, so the liner would reach the edge better. Plus, just a tad smaller. I have to be ok with that, and why wouldn't I be...it's an amazing pond for me. But it's a real heaven for the turtles!
Oh yeah, the liner under the rock is just for extra padding, plus I need a place to be able to put my foot to acsess the waterfall area. The liner for the waterfall lays on top of the pond liner that runs half way up the falls. That liner also drapes over the mound of dirt that seperates and supports the bog, and the bog liner falls down the side of the pond. The bad thing is the way they allowed the liner to bunch up at the bottom of the falls that flows into the bog. There's so much extra liner gathered up, and more than enough to extend and overlap the retaining blocks. I took a picture.
Should I tear out the rocks to use that excess liner, and then redo the falls? I have no clue what that would be like to do, but if it would be better I am willing to learn...and get it done right.
I am, and have been concerned about the big rock that stands at the side of the falls. I am worried that the end of that rock, which is not all that smooth and is more pointed than flat (it's not a sharp point, I wouldn't do that, but it's kind of ruff) might potentially cause a hole in the liner. One thing i hate in life is to have a constant worry about something that plain ole should have been checked out when there was a chance to do so...you know what i mean? But if the job of checking is way more than what I should be messing with, then I can learn to grow shadows in my mind to obcsure the nagging wonder of "what if"...


I love painted turtles, too!

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
:razz: Yes I had to do the same thing with my turttles, sneaky little guys they are
I had to move the plants away from the sides plus build a cliff all the away around and the cliff builds in to the pond instead of out.
I have watched them try to climb out they climb and you can see them pulling there selves up and then as they climb they slowly tip over backwards back in to the pond.

Looking at that liner
You might be able to get some of that crease out of it.
But looks like becuase of the curve of the stream that is why there is a lot of crease/waster there.
If you can pull some of it out fill it with river rock and add a roll of the stone edge on top of it you should be ok.

Ruben :razz:

 

[pond42sliders]

Oh my goodness...it never occurred to me that I could put the stone edging blocks on top of the liner! But I don't think I can get any of the liner, that's all gathered under the falls, pulled out without moving that one long standing rock. Which will mean pulling out some of the foamed in smaller rock, and, well who knows what else will come out. But, I could still do that, I just don't know anything about building...or rebuilding the waterfall again. The liner might even be bunched up under that piece of overflow slab. Oh dear, i'll take a closer look 2morrow.
Thank goodness the weather is going to be nice this week. It's hard enough for me to get up and down off the ground under normal conditions. But in the slippery mudd...thank goodness for tall wood fences :redface:

 

[CountryEscape]

Well, in my opinion, if the waterfall liner flows over into the bog, and you want it all smoother, you will have no choice but to remove all the rock in the bog, and on the walls, etc. to smooth it out. Is it worth it? Probably not, unless you plan it out and then get lots of young strong help! I'm 54, built my ponds myself, and when I plan to do something that is going to be heavy and hours of work, I plan it for a pretty and sunny day, then just dig in. BUT, if you are having problems with your knees, it will make it much worse. So, can you enlist some help from neighbor kids or friend's kids, or something? Make them a nice lunch for "payment"! You'd be surprised how many kids need to do "community service" projects for school, and would love to help you out.
The other thing that bothers me is that you have your liner falling into the pond. I think I have that at the bottom of my stream, so can I assume your pond liner goes up a ways into the waterfall and/or bog, to keep the water from seeping up the liner and seeping out of the pond? Just a thought, want to make sure if you pull the waterfall/bog apart, to make sure you have enough overlap for that not to happen.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Awe.., you such a good turtle "mommy" ! Had a look at the work you have been doing to the bog, looking good, little grey bricks stacked nice, and it appears that your getting around pretty good with the "knees" and all.

 

[Fishylove]

ok, am understanding that the main problem in the bog is that the liner is too short? And did you say you had extra liner on hand?

 

[Fishylove]

If you have extra liner, and of course, haven't made the bog smaller yet, I have a solution.
Let me go find the container.

 

[Fishylove]

ok, just a suggestion





this stuff is wonderful as far as seaming the rubber liners together. I used it to seam two remnant pcs together, and the seam goes down the center of my 5 ft deep pond

This is where i seamed them together, tryed to find the seam so i could show you how i did it but with all the heavy sandstone its just too buried now.




what you will want to do is clean both pcs as well as you can, you could use peroxide and a cloth, let it dry. then you'll apply the rubber caulking in an S line, most importantly making sure that the bead is not broken. Take the extra pc and place it on top of the pc that is already in the bog. Smooth the liner pieces out sort of move them back and forth to make good contact, and press down. now after 24 hours drying time, for extra sealing I ran a line of caulkdown the edge and then took my finger down the bead keeping it sort of thick but pressed to both pcs. let it also dry 24 hours. Sounds like alot but its not.. very simple you should be able to find the rubber caulking at a roofing supply store.. and there you go water proof seal Then you wont have to make the bog shallower and you can just place rocks over the seams to hide it

 

[Fishylove]

Oh and I used this instead of using the EPDM seam tape which is VERY expensive. This stuff cost around $6.50 a tube used two tubes on the remnants and the third tube I took a pic of still has some in it after sealing the waterfall. Used it to seal to the liner under the waterfall, so I didn't have to take it down and rebuild. I even used it to glue my daughters boots back together where the soles came apart! Lolol. I'm tellin ya the stuff is better than super glue! Hah!!

 

[pond42sliders]

ok, just a suggestion

View attachment 49591



this stuff is wonderful as far as seaming the rubber liners together. I used it to seam two remnant pcs together, and the seam goes down the center of my 5 ft deep pond

I think this might be the best way for me to go. The weather is going to be perfect for a few days, and I really don't want to go through the pain and agony of tearing everything down. I'm going outside now and do a close and final examination of my problem. It's still a little to wet to work out there today, but I can get everything ready for first thing in the morning.

I have enough unused liner to actually triple the bog size. What would that do to the dynamics of how the pond, as a whole, funtions?

 

[Fishylove]

You can never have too much filtration IMO. That stuff is like liquid rubber in a tube, very sticky, so use gloves. And you can use it down to freezing temps too. Also says on the package that it will cure while wet so, I think anyway you do it you'll be fine as long as you have a continuous bead of caulking good luck!

 

[pond42sliders]

About the filteration...I see alot about people running pvc flush lines, overflows and such, through their bogs. I'm not using anything but rocks, should I install something like that, too?

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
I went back to look and did not see what filtration you are running.
So I take it as the bog is going to be your main filtration ?

If that is it and Turttles are very messy just like gold fish or Koi
So the more plants in the bog the better
So a bigger bog (Now I am not a bog expert so)
But I take it that the bog is going to be that stream area of the waterfall that you are working on.
If that is the case MHO (If you can) make it bigger and deeper for bigger and more plants.
The rocks will build beifical bacteria where the water runs over it but once the rocks gets algea on it there will be less BB although the algea will consume Ammo and the Nitrates.
But I don't think it will consume as much as BB.
I would think it is better to have a abundance of plants for filtration again MHO.

Ruben

 

[Fishylove]

Now addy, sissy and the more experienced bog users would be better at answering your questions on specs. I'm building one, but didn't quite get to finish mine, so ill be starting it up when it warms up. But I do know a bit, your bog will work better if you have it plumbed with PVC, to optimize every inch of your bog, especially if its the only filtration you'll have. I believe maybe addy or sissy has a thread on how to construct the PVC piping. In general your bog should be at least 25-30% of the surface area of your pond ( or something like that). So if you have a 9x11 pond = 99sft surface area , your bog should be at least 25sft. ( can be any length x width to equal that). If you have more space for a larger one, by all means use the area lol. Again look to the thread on how to construct the plumbing, but the purpose is so that the pond water is pushed thru all areas of the bog. Otherwise the water will take the least resistance route and just flow over the top of the rocks.

 

[Fishylove]

The pipes run the length of the bog, and depending on how wide would dictate how many you would use. Mine is only 4ft wide so I'm using two, 2 inch pipes with holes drilled at an angle pointing sorta downward. They are fed by the pump from the main pond and tee'd off into two PVC pipes that run along the bottom of the bog, under the pea gravel, so that the water flows up and back into the p