New Pond Build with Bog Questions

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3,000 GPH IS VERY LOW FOR BOTTOM DRAINS with a three inch line however 3 is usually the smallest but for a pond of 2100 gallons 3 inch is oversizing, By the time you pull from all directions the draw becomes minimal, if your confident you'll never enlarge the pond., i would use the 2 inch pipe as it can draw 4600gph and that will keep your pressure up pulling from further away. at the drain if you split between it and a skimmer you'll be back to minimal pressures / draw,
 
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3,000 GPH IS VERY LOW FOR BOTTOM DRAINS with a three inch line however 3 is usually the smallest but for a pond of 2100 gallons 3 inch is oversizing, By the time you pull from all directions the draw becomes minimal, if your confident you'll never enlarge the pond., i would use the 2 inch pipe as it can draw 4600gph and that will keep your pressure up pulling from further away. at the drain if you split between it and a skimmer you'll be back to minimal pressures / draw,
Thank you again for such helpful feedback! A plumbing setup that is 2" from the bottom drain all the way to the pump simplifies things and reduces cost. I'm glad to hear that it's a good option!

-Andrew
 
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Hi Andrew, welcome to the forum.

I've just completed being a "hybrid" pond with a bottom drain and a bog filter, here is my build thread

I have 2 x 3" bottom drains and a intake bay, mine feeds a drum filter that feeds the bog.

I'm not too sure of my total flow rate, I have two variable pumps a 8000 gph to feed the bog and 5200gph for circulation, but both are only running 50% power.

so I 7000 - 8000 gph, so flow rate is a little low but all seems ok for now, if I do need to flush, i could always turn two ball valves off to force all flow through one bottom drain.

Pipe size, I had a lot of people telling me I need to use 4" pipe for bottom drains, but I didn't think I had enough flow, so I scaled down to 3" pipe, I'm with @GBBUDD, faster flow rates will help keep the pipes clean, 2" could work better, but could block easier?

What I don't see is a skimmer or intake bay to take surface waste from the pond, I recommend you make one, in my case I built an intake bay, it works great.
 
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Hi Andrew, welcome to the forum.

I've just completed being a "hybrid" pond with a bottom drain and a bog filter, here is my build thread

I have 2 x 3" bottom drains and a intake bay, mine feeds a drum filter that feeds the bog.

I'm not too sure of my total flow rate, I have two variable pumps a 8000 gph to feed the bog and 5200gph for circulation, but both are only running 50% power.

so I 7000 - 8000 gph, so flow rate is a little low but all seems ok for now, if I do need to flush, i could always turn two ball valves off to force all flow through one bottom drain.

Pipe size, I had a lot of people telling me I need to use 4" pipe for bottom drains, but I didn't think I had enough flow, so I scaled down to 3" pipe, I'm with @GBBUDD, faster flow rates will help keep the pipes clean, 2" could work better, but could block easier?

What I don't see is a skimmer or intake bay to take surface waste from the pond, I recommend you make one, in my case I built an intake bay, it works great.
Hi Gary! Thank you for sharing your build as it has similarities for sure! As you mention, my plan lacks a skimmer. I'm hopeful this will be ok and here's why I've opted to leave it out. First, the pond is elevated and far from trees. The porch that was there before excavation only got about a dozen leaves on it over the course of a year and there is no chance of lawn clippings making there way in. I suppose my biggest concern will be the leaves from the bog plants. Second, I intend to make the pond a home for turtles, which sound like curious creatures that can be hurt by a skimmer. Lastly, simplicity. I am open to a skimmer but only if it's necessary. Thanks again!

-Andrew
 
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You may be ok without one but you be amazed at how much settles on the pond.

An intake bay is quite safe the turtles will be able to swim in and out it, it just does a gentle pull on the water surface.

Anyway good luck with it.

One bit of advice, make sure your pump room is big enough, I thought I had plenty of room, I hadn't and had to compromise my design. Chech valves, ball valves etc take up a lot of room
 

addy1

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Welcome to the forum!

Great looking plan. My pond is so basic, pond, pump, bog.
 
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You may be ok without one but you be amazed at how much settles on the pond.

An intake bay is quite safe the turtles will be able to swim in and out it, it just does a gentle pull on the water surface.

Anyway good luck with it.

One bit of advice, make sure your pump room is big enough, I thought I had plenty of room, I hadn't and had to compromise my design. Chech valves, ball valves etc take up a lot of room
Thank you! I should be able to add a skimmer later on if needed. Also, I'm yet to design a pump room and this is great advice. It certainly needs to be spacious enough to work in and have ventilation to prevent overheating. Thanks for the help!

-Andrew
 
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Welcome to the forum!

Great looking plan. My pond is so basic, pond, pump, bog.
Hi Addy! Thank you for the encouragement! I continually remind myself of your setup and how simplicity can be the best way to go with bogs. Thanks!

-Andrew
 
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Looking at your plans again, put the bottom drain in the middle of the deep section and ensure the floor of the pond has a reasonable slope to help solids make there way in to the bd.


As I mentioned before, if you do consider a intake bay, you could just section off one of the corners of the main pond with a board or block and use a stiff liner with a notch in at the top to allow some water in and connect a pipe to base of the corner, flow in only needs to slow so turtles can swim in and out

intakebay.png


This is mine
intake.jpg


I have a water level valve in the area, it is quite shallow so filter material is seen, but this could be deeper in the water.
intake2.jpg


If you look at ozponds on youtube, you can just use rocks to make your intake bay.
 
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Looking at your plans again, put the bottom drain in the middle of the deep section and ensure the floor of the pond has a reasonable slope to help solids make there way in to the bd.


As I mentioned before, if you do consider a intake bay, you could just section off one of the corners of the main pond with a board or block and use a stiff liner with a notch in at the top to allow some water in and connect a pipe to base of the corner, flow in only needs to slow so turtles can swim in and out

View attachment 166472

This is mine
View attachment 166473

I have a water level valve in the area, it is quite shallow so filter material is seen, but this could be deeper in the water.
View attachment 166474

If you look at ozponds on youtube, you can just use rocks to make your intake bay.
Hi Gary! Your post is incredibly helpful! I was debating where the bottom drain should be and choose to offset it to maximize distance from the waterfall but considering the dimensions of the pond, I agree, the center will work great and make it easier to build in a mild downward slope toward it.

Your intake bay looks great and has me inspired. I also love how it allows for a concealed water level valve for automated filling. I may take that idea too! Thanks!

-Andrew
 
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Hi Garden Pond Forum!

I'm so grateful for the wealth of information here and this is my first post! I hope to be an active part of the forum as I move forward with my unique pond build. I would like to share my current plans in the hopes of feedback if you see any red flags in the design. Attached are 2 pictures of the completed blockwork (partially covered due to a drizzle today) that will be the edge of a patio that meets up with a pond, water channel, and bog connected by two water features. This can be also be seen by the above view sketch. The total water volume (excluding the bog) is around 2,100 gallons. I'm pretty committed to the layout, but have not done the plumbing or the bog. I am planning on a 3" bottom drain that will feed to a 3,000GPH pump. I know a bottom drain is not standard for bogs due to debris but there are no trees nearby so the only solids will be from the wildlife (turtles and a few fish). About half of this water will be forced through the bog and the other half cycled back over the water features. The design minimizes bends in the piping and places the pump next to the bog. Is it better to have the pump close to the pond or bog? Is 3" piping really needed if it has to constrict to 2" for the pump anyway? The bog sketch is a merging of a lot of ideas proposed on this and other forums with an effort to maximize volume, keep large debris low in the bog, and filter water through as much gravel as possible before reentering the pond. The only thing that is not pictured is a cleanout that will go to the lowest point of the small setting chamber. Thank you in advance for any feedback!

-Andrew
thelayout is not clear to me; but, Id' do 4" on the bottom drain way much easier to clean when needed, and gives the pump max water for intake - the old saying "pay me now or payy me later". Give yourself a couple cleanouts,. make maintenance as easy as you can - if you upsize one size larger than you think you'll need you'll have room for expansion - you can always reduce via pipe or valving, but you can't increase size
 
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Thank you! I should be able to add a skimmer later on if needed. Also, I'm yet to design a pump room and this is great advice. It certainly needs to be spacious enough to work in and have ventilation to prevent overheating. Thanks for the help!

-Andrew
Really can't to a great degree oer valve or have cleanouts - yes space for mainenance will make life so much better - by valving you could have duplex operations, closinbg one for mainenance while the other continuses to function. Tho cost is a consideration DO NOT SKIMP - it's either pay now or pay MORE later. With ponding it seems to be close it down after a year or so or have it grow with additions. Pipe size: larger easier to clean, use sweep ells (or if using pvc you can heat and bend, especially if you need to "jog" abit to line up. Even after 20 years and being 82 still think I'd like to change this or that - actually choose to convert a smaller pond into a bog as cleaning it has become too difficult
 
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Really can't to a great degree oer valve or have cleanouts - yes space for mainenance will make life so much better - by valving you could have duplex operations, closinbg one for mainenance while the other continuses to function. Tho cost is a consideration DO NOT SKIMP - it's either pay now or pay MORE later. With ponding it seems to be close it down after a year or so or have it grow with additions. Pipe size: larger easier to clean, use sweep ells (or if using pvc you can heat and bend, especially if you need to "jog" abit to line up. Even after 20 years and being 82 still think I'd like to change this or that - actually choose to convert a smaller pond into a bog as cleaning it has become too difficult
Thank you for the great advice on cleanouts and valves! I'm definitely including several for that reason. You mentioned 4" pipe, but I'm committed to 2" now. It's been buried/concreted in. I'm hoping since the pond is not a gravity fed setup (pipes lead to an external pump that feeds the bog), the lower diameter will work and perhaps be beneficial in keeping the pipes clear of debris due to the higher flow rate. Also, following up on a previous post, I have setup the infrastructure for a large skimmer to keep water velocity slow and keep critters safe. I'm hoping it'll work out well. Thank you again for all the help! It's a slow process (even though I work on it every day) but I'll be following up with pictures and build details soon.

-Andrew
 
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Hi Forum,

Thank you again for all the guidance through this thread and others! I'm slowly making progress and now focused on bog construction. It's turning out to be a pretty complex build but I'm optimistic it will provide a good long term solution for water quality and ease of maintenance. Blow the rock, I have a 100 gallon settling chamber that is isolated by concrete slabs supporting the rock above. Gaps between the slabs allow water to go up. The bog and settling chamber will all be contained within one large piece of 45mil liner. When installing the liner, I'll be following the advice of others to take my time to organize the folds and use water weight to get it positioned correctly before trimming and securing the edges. It'll have a lot of folds and ripples. I don't mind this visually since they'll be hidden behind gravel. My question is more about the potential to damage the liner. The concrete slabs will rest on rubber folds and these slabs will support a ton of weight. Will the rubber folds crack over time due to the force on the bend? Has any one had leaks from placing heavy rocks on folds? I'm just trying to anticipate any pitfalls in the design before I continue along. Thanks!

-Andrew
 

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