new mini-pond taking F.O.R.E.V.E.R. to cycle

[fishin4cars]

Fishin... When I started the pond, the water temps were in the 50's. All I did was dechlorinate and let it run. I didn't start adding the Fritz-Zyme until the water temps rose above 60. I should be getting good flow through the media because when I opened the filter box to rinse the foam pads (in pond water) on Saturday while cleaning up algae, below the pads, in the media... there was also algae. After rinsing the pads, I put them back without disturbing the current media that was underneath, other than adding rinsed (in pond water) ceramic media. I originally had lettuce in the very beginning, but I think it was too cold, they slowly died and ended up in my compost pile. I was going to try again with lettuce and hyacinth anyway, looks like now is the time! I'll also look into getting an airstone. The rocks are definitely clean, I'll smooth them back out. There's only enough to cover the bottom.

My tap water only contains 0.5 ammonia, tested this last month. I have some water garden planting media, due to having a mini water lily in a tub on the deck. It's supposed to have Microbe Lift in it. Could I pot the plants in that? Or should I stick with pea gravel? There's currently nothing around the roots of the current plants, they're just weighted on the bottom. I already have a small taro planted nearby I could uproot and repot into the pond if needed. Plants, plants, plants... especially lettuce... got it.

Once the levels drop sufficiently, I'll re-add the fish. I don't feed them much anyway, so they'll definitely be ok with every other day.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR ALL THE ADVICE!! I'll keep ya posted.

Happy ponding,
~Lu

Aquatic planting media is 100% fine, No problem there. 0.5 ammonia from the tap, There is what I was looking for! You need a ammonia binder, Zeolite chips would be my choice, there are some water conditioners that will do this also, sounds like your dealing with Chlorimine in your water system, It would be a great idea to premix any water for a water change with a good chlorimine remover.
keep an eye on that fine foam filter, they clog fast and once they do the water will pass around the media to the sides and not flow through the media correctly. i've used that same filter before, they work great for plant only ponds and light load fish ponds like a hospital tank but they can cause anerabic bacteria growth as well which is not good in any pond and the smaller the pond the less it takes to cause problems.

After some thinking I realized if you had not tried to forced fishless cycling you would be up and running by now.

My advice is to take a step back and forget about fishless cycling. I wish I had suggest this first.

Just setup the pond with as many plants as you want. (perhaps you are there) Then add a 2 or 3 two inch goldfish. They will be a small bioload and the system will adjust to them with no water changes or jumping through hoops.

Watch the ammonia and nitrite levels. If the levels do not rise after 10 days of feeding add 2 more. After a few weeks and you quite sure there is no problems with the water you can add a few more fish.

At this point one is tempted to think that dumping in stuff from a bottle will cut the time down. I suggest you let nature do it for you. Note that your pond bottom and sides may be capable of supporting a good percentage of the bacteria required by the pond. Please do not do more the suck loose particles from the bottom. I expect the bacteria also exist on plant roots and any other submerged surface. It even grows in the plumbing used on ponds.

A word about fish selection. First don't buy feeders. They are shipped 100's to a bag with little water. By the time you get them they are mostly all ill. It is like inoculating your pond with trouble. It is common practice for stores to pull the better looking ones and place them in another tank for a bit more money. Buy your fish form a pet store that know fish and goldfish in particular. A garden center might be ok. Even better get them from another person with a healthy pond! In either case you will fall in love with whatever fish you buy, for that reason alone there is little chance of upgrading to nicer ones at that point.



You should be looking for zero ammonia. In a cycled pond the nitrate level will rise with time unless you have sufficient plant roots to use it up. If levels get too high it will cause green water or string algae.

I agree with HTH on everything except one thing, 8 fish in a 64 gallon pond is pushing the limits even with them only being 1" long. My rule of thumb 1" of fish pre 10 gallons of water max! That's with really good filtration. I would start with about two maybe three fish, once it's stable, keep the fish load fairly light. 64 gallons is a small pond, the more you add the more carefully your going to have to watch this small of a pond. Being new to the hobby I would stay light loaded until your more comfortable with ponding.

 

[lenny jewell]

by the way lulu the fish that seemed to help me the most were 2 Plecostamus (sic), they helped to naturally rid me of fish waste and algae although it just rained and the algae has bloomed again . But i think its because i was over medicating the pond with melafix , the advice i have found most helpful was to stop with the additives add plants and let nature do the work , as long as the algae dies back down after 2 or 3 days my fish dont seem to mind it , i however would like to see my fish again lol

 

[fishin4cars]

Be aware, Pleco's do not eat fish waste. they eat algae, they eat plants that are dying but they don't eat fish waste they add to it. Plecos, do great for helping keep hair algae down on the sides and bottom of the pond, They do not over winter though, they will die if the water gets below 50 degrees, I bring mine in every year and have been keeping it in a fish tank for the winter but at 22" I think I'm going to take it and trade it in this year and get a few small ones next spring.

 

[stroppy]

lets not forget this is a very small pond and adding anymore than 2 i think would be silly, even goldfish get big i have some that are 12 inches

 

[fishin4cars]

lets not forget this is a very small pond and adding anymore than 2 i think would be silly, even goldfish get big I have some that are 12 inches

I agree, I think she can get away with more than two as long as they are fairly small but they do need room to grow and the bigger they get the harder it is going to be to keep them in that size pond.

 

[HTH]

I keep forgetting how small this pond. So my bad on the fish load.

As the pair of fish grow the pond will start to act more like an aquarium in that it will require water changes to keep the nitrates down.

I think your pH was about 7.5 and ammonia is not that dangerous at .5. The bacteria should take it down in a few days and the plants can use the nitrates, unless the fish load is too large. (if if if) I do not much care for zeolite, It always made me wonder if it was starving the bio filter. Maybe I worry too much. When possible avoid chemicals and let the bio filter and plants do their job.

If and while you can keep the nitrates in check with you plants the pond should not grow objectionable algae. If it does know that the algae is there for a reason and if you fix the problem it will go away. Killing algae with chemicals is most often the wrong thing to do.

I like to use a air blubber in the pond along with the filter. That way if the filter slows or stops for any reason the air will keep the water moving and the fish alive for quite some time.

Do you have the pond on a GFI circuit ?

 

[LuLu]

Mkay... So I've read all of your wonderful advice and now have conflicting answers on how to proceed, LOL.

Today I have:
Ammonia 0.5
Nittrites: off the chart, def over 5
Nitrates: between 40-80

My next step would be....?

 

[LuLu]

Random thought: The difference between pond peeps and aquarium peeps is exciting to observe, btw. There were only a few aquariumists who wanted to give advice on a pond even tho I essentially have an outdoor aquarium. You ponders are far more forthcoming with advice tho. The aquariumists (or is it aquarists? Dunno...) are ALL about the nitrogen cycle, ie: shoving it down throats, berating those who would so carelessly put any fish in harm's way. Im a nurse. To me... and this is my analogy cause it's what I know... The aquariumists are like specialists, who are only there to assess and fix their one aspect of (pond) health, very calculatedly. Here, it feels like I'm visiting the holistic pond doctor, who will assess multiple systems to get to the root of the problem. It's all the same disease, ponds just have more aspects to factor in since they're open to the world I instead of in a closed off glass box.

 

[fishin4cars]

What do you feel is conflicting advice? Howard does keep a pond a little different than I do but at the same time, he knows what he doing as well. Guess you could say more than one way to eat a apple? LOL
He doesn't like zeolite, and explained why. My thinking is help get the ammonia back down to a managable state for the bacteria and plants to take over, then remove it. I don't think it can remove enough to hurt the bacteria but I also see what he's saying. I think he'll agree for getting things in control for short term that it could have it's benefits,
Cycling a pond, a reef tank, an freshwater aquarium. It's basically all the same but there are several different approachs. You can't overlook it as a new tank,pond etc. problem that a new comer to the hobby has to learn and go through. It's one thing we ALL have in common! LOL Some express it differently than others. When you posted your first post it was clear you had already been talking and knew the basics, We are trying to get you to the settling down and stable pond point. Ask if you don't feel comfortable, like I said before, don't jump on the first answer, listen and feel comfortable with your choice of action. Both of us can agree on one direction for you.

 

[LuLu]

Another random thought: 3 days to get down to almost zero... that's better than 4-5 as it has been taking.

My local pond store takes back/trades down fish. He said if they get too big, I could trade 'em in for smaller ones.

 

[LuLu]

Ha! Nevermind... the A.D.D. musta kicked in, I was reading like 3 topics at once, and well... I got the topics confused, LOL. I won't be able to do anything more with the pond for the next couple of days due to my schedule, but this weekend? It's ON.

Thanks again for all of your help!!

 

[LuLu]

Turns out... the problem was most likely lack of sufficient filter media all along. Grrrrrrrrrr!

After last evening's results of:
Ammonia 0.5
Nittrites: off the chart
Nitrates: between 40-80

Just before going to bed, I added Ammonia again to get up to 5ppm.

This morning's results were:
Ammonia: 1.5-ish
Nitrites: still off the chart
Nitrates: between 80-160

**SO excited to FINALLY start seeing progress!** :bouncycig: :beerchug: :cheerful: :banana: :lol:

 

[fishin4cars]

STOP adding ammonia! Your nitrates are up your bacteria is formed! NO MORE AMMONIA! once it all settles down to below .5 or below on ammonia and your nitrites start droping off, Do a 30-50% water change and you should be ready for fish.
All your doing right now with adding more ammonia is making the nitrites and nitrates spike out! Requiring more water changes.

 

[LuLu]

I know, I know... BUT, I did a 50% water change this morning before I left, and I'm not going to be home for the next 2 days (til Friday night), & I didn't want the progress I've made to backslide ie: any BB to die off. I'll be adding the fish this weekend after a 75% wc if the parameters are OK. AND, I had planned all along for my fishload to be pushing the overstocked limit so I'll be needing all the extra BB my filter system can produce/house. I understand that you guys n' gals are far more experienced than I, but know that there won't be just a 2-3 fish in it in the very near future.

 

[fishin4cars]

Good luck! Advise has been given, you chosse to go beyond the limit you could be back to square one again. If your going to add more than 2-3 fish, you really need to consider a pond not a bowl. I'm trying to help, But seriously a small pond like that just isn't going to stay stable for long with a high fish load, Even the filter your using is good for not more than two or three fish med. sized fish. It works but by far is not a great filter by any means.