Ruben Miranda
I am so confused
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2012
- Messages
- 536
- Reaction score
- 267
- Location
- So California Whittier
- Hardiness Zone
- 12a
- Country
Hello and Welcome
:goldfish:
Ruben
:goldfish:
Ruben
New member from Manitoba Canada!
- Thread starter wendy
- Start date
It is a Thermo Pond 3 de icer. Is that crap? Did I buy crap? It had good customer reviews on the Pets and Ponds website where I bought it. I probably bought crap! I am looking forward to seeing your pumps and filters that you use for winter. I am so visual and I just can't image using a filter and pump in the winter without it freezing solid.
My pond has a thin layer of ice on it now. But, I also have no running water in it either as I sent my filter and pump back to the installer cause it was CRAP! We have had minus seven at night and only a few degrees warmer than that during the day. No sun to speak of. Minus seven and eight at night with little sun and no running water equals ice on pond! Highways this morning were a nightmare.
I thank everyone for the warm welcome! Everyone is so friendly and helpful!
Enjoy the weekend!!
My pond has a thin layer of ice on it now. But, I also have no running water in it either as I sent my filter and pump back to the installer cause it was CRAP! We have had minus seven at night and only a few degrees warmer than that during the day. No sun to speak of. Minus seven and eight at night with little sun and no running water equals ice on pond! Highways this morning were a nightmare.
I thank everyone for the warm welcome! Everyone is so friendly and helpful!
Enjoy the weekend!!
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,432
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
I can't remember the name, it was a few years ago, but sounds similar, check to see what temperture it says it is good for and let me know. What happened to the last pump, did it just quit? My pumps usually last five years, or even more, non-stop running. I will try to get a picture of the filter, but it is very cold and inside the water, taking it out only on a nice day!!
Running water does not freeze when running faster 200 gph. Those are very small pumps, and they have ran all winter for me, small hose, ice all around hose, still pumpimg water to the marsh. "Picture" a small creek, you must have walked by them in the winter? They look totally frozen, in the winter, but under the ice you just walked over, the water still flows, follow it to an open hole, there usually is one, and listen careful for the sound of running water. During the coldest days of winter, my bottom pond can appear frozen, but it is not all frozen, only 4 or 5 inches at most, and then a small hole is usually open in the "water way".
Have a nice weekend Wendy, good luck with the de-icer!
Running water does not freeze when running faster 200 gph. Those are very small pumps, and they have ran all winter for me, small hose, ice all around hose, still pumpimg water to the marsh. "Picture" a small creek, you must have walked by them in the winter? They look totally frozen, in the winter, but under the ice you just walked over, the water still flows, follow it to an open hole, there usually is one, and listen careful for the sound of running water. During the coldest days of winter, my bottom pond can appear frozen, but it is not all frozen, only 4 or 5 inches at most, and then a small hole is usually open in the "water way".
Have a nice weekend Wendy, good luck with the de-icer!
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2011
- Messages
- 7,257
- Reaction score
- 4,819
- Location
- near Effingham, Illinois
- Hardiness Zone
- 5b
Wendy, go to a farm store to get a floating heater. They are far cheaper than ones that say "pond" on them! Farm stores carry heaters that will keep water tanks open all winter for livestock. It will not "heat" your pond, but WILL keep the ice open enough to let the oxygen escape. I have my pump on the bottom of my pond, it's 3' deep as it's up on a basket, and it never freezes that deep even if I had nothing running. As Colleen says, if you have water running all the time, it cannot freeze. BUT, your worry is loss of electricity, and will the lines freeze then, and the answer would be yes. So, maybe Colleen has a pump that is not in the water, not sure how that works if the electricity goes off long enough to freeze the water in the line. I would think that would be a huge problem. BUT, if your heater is next to where the line would be, maybe that would thaw it out faster. I think that's your biggest concern, electricity going off for an extended period of time. That is probably why Colleen has an extra pump and set up waiting, so that if things do freeze up, she can run floating heater on top of ice to thaw it out, them drop another line or pump into that hole and shoot the water up to help thaw the surface to a larger area.
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,432
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
Yes that right, hose won't freeze unless pump slows down too much due to poor filter. Small pumps like 200 gph and under, if the filter clogs and the water slows too much the hose on surface can freeze as that did happen to me one year with a small pump.
CE is right, go to farmer store that I recommended earlier, Peavey Mart, that's one of our farmers store here in town, every thing cheaper and better. Can't remember if I told her on this thread or my new winter thread, "my pond runs all winter".
The power does not usually go off and if it does, it is not for very long. BUT and CE says, just in case, that is why I have spare older filters and pumps and one new pump I got on "end of the year sale" because pumps are always needed sooner or later.
Got ice on pond today..... about 70 percent covered right now with thin layer of ice. Debating putting the heater in for a couple hours tonight, supposed to get down to minus 10 c again tonight, but should warm back up Sunday to plus tempertures.... just checked forecast on my "cell phone beast" and tonight will warm up, to plus 4 c. Right now temperature is minus 7c. Mental debate over, not going to put in heater, sounds like a "Chinook" is coming. Hey Wendy, do you get Chinooks in Winnipeg?
CE is right, go to farmer store that I recommended earlier, Peavey Mart, that's one of our farmers store here in town, every thing cheaper and better. Can't remember if I told her on this thread or my new winter thread, "my pond runs all winter".
The power does not usually go off and if it does, it is not for very long. BUT and CE says, just in case, that is why I have spare older filters and pumps and one new pump I got on "end of the year sale" because pumps are always needed sooner or later.
Got ice on pond today..... about 70 percent covered right now with thin layer of ice. Debating putting the heater in for a couple hours tonight, supposed to get down to minus 10 c again tonight, but should warm back up Sunday to plus tempertures.... just checked forecast on my "cell phone beast" and tonight will warm up, to plus 4 c. Right now temperature is minus 7c. Mental debate over, not going to put in heater, sounds like a "Chinook" is coming. Hey Wendy, do you get Chinooks in Winnipeg?
Attachments
Thanks for the info!
Colleen it says on the web site good to -34c. Well that won't do me very well in Jan and Feb will it??? Stupid thing. I will hold onto it anyway as the reason I bought it was for the stock tank in garage this winter. Just in case the stock tank starts to freeze. I have water running continually on the filter but I rememeber the garage getting to -20 c last winter. Insulated but not heated. I did however put some weather stripping on the overhead door this fall. Anything to help.
Country escape - thanks for the information on the de icer. I will take a drive to a town north of us here before next winter and get myself a farm type heater. Great big huge farm co-op store there. We have had many power outages during the winter before. Mostly due to ice on the hydro lines and strong winds. Not uncommom to have power out for 4 - 8 hours at a time. We have some pretty nasty winter weather here on the prairies.
We do not get chinooks here but I always hear about them in Calgary area. Usually we get a ton of snow in December and then the big freeze hits us in January and February and then lots of snow again in March and usually a winter snow storm in early to mid April. That is the normal but things seem to be changing every year. For example our entire month of October was our normal November type weather.
Looking forward to seeing your filter and pump set up Colleen. I am going to have to get a system for next winter. I will wait to see what system you are using and get something similar. Colleen you asked me if the pump I returned to installer died. No, it didn't but it wasn't doing the job I was told it would do. Pump actually was good, it was the filter that sucked! And, they were sold in a set so when I decided the filter was garbage, the pump was returned along with it. This winter I am making a filter and will have it ready for spring. I have a 1 hp pump in the basement that is external, and we used it for our above ground swimming pool when we had it. It is the same as the pump I returned except it is 1 hp not 1.5 hp. My plan is to split the pump suction and have part suction to go in my diy filter and part suction on maybe some type of water feature/fountain thing. I know that 1 hp is too much for just the filter, water needs to travel slower through the filter before returning to pond. I am going to plumb it from the filter down the stream to the waterfall somehow. I have all winter to think about how. Thanks again all and talk soon!!
Colleen it says on the web site good to -34c. Well that won't do me very well in Jan and Feb will it??? Stupid thing. I will hold onto it anyway as the reason I bought it was for the stock tank in garage this winter. Just in case the stock tank starts to freeze. I have water running continually on the filter but I rememeber the garage getting to -20 c last winter. Insulated but not heated. I did however put some weather stripping on the overhead door this fall. Anything to help.
Country escape - thanks for the information on the de icer. I will take a drive to a town north of us here before next winter and get myself a farm type heater. Great big huge farm co-op store there. We have had many power outages during the winter before. Mostly due to ice on the hydro lines and strong winds. Not uncommom to have power out for 4 - 8 hours at a time. We have some pretty nasty winter weather here on the prairies.
We do not get chinooks here but I always hear about them in Calgary area. Usually we get a ton of snow in December and then the big freeze hits us in January and February and then lots of snow again in March and usually a winter snow storm in early to mid April. That is the normal but things seem to be changing every year. For example our entire month of October was our normal November type weather.
Looking forward to seeing your filter and pump set up Colleen. I am going to have to get a system for next winter. I will wait to see what system you are using and get something similar. Colleen you asked me if the pump I returned to installer died. No, it didn't but it wasn't doing the job I was told it would do. Pump actually was good, it was the filter that sucked! And, they were sold in a set so when I decided the filter was garbage, the pump was returned along with it. This winter I am making a filter and will have it ready for spring. I have a 1 hp pump in the basement that is external, and we used it for our above ground swimming pool when we had it. It is the same as the pump I returned except it is 1 hp not 1.5 hp. My plan is to split the pump suction and have part suction to go in my diy filter and part suction on maybe some type of water feature/fountain thing. I know that 1 hp is too much for just the filter, water needs to travel slower through the filter before returning to pond. I am going to plumb it from the filter down the stream to the waterfall somehow. I have all winter to think about how. Thanks again all and talk soon!!
waynefrcan
19 years ponding and hopefully 4 more!
Hello and welcome. I'm told by local experts, that a bottom heater and air pump work the best for our cold winters, with a micro bubble air stone.
That heater just will not do it for you. It's a good idea with the hole to vent gasses, but way too weak in power. I wouldn't even give it -34, more like -24 and it's an ice cube.
That heater just will not do it for you. It's a good idea with the hole to vent gasses, but way too weak in power. I wouldn't even give it -34, more like -24 and it's an ice cube.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2011
- Messages
- 7,257
- Reaction score
- 4,819
- Location
- near Effingham, Illinois
- Hardiness Zone
- 5b
Wayne, interesting you recommend bottom heater. Around here, bottom heaters are made to sit right on the bottom of a metal tank, and usually say cannot be used on anything other than metal. In other words, it would melt plastic or rubber. But, what you use must have some type of frame to keep it off of the liner. I would be very careful to have it right down on the liner, as there may be a fold in the liner right where the heater is, and you sure would not want to melt your liner, or cause a short in the heater. That's why most use the floating heaters. It's not a matter of heating all of the water (which you didn't say anyhow), but rather keeping an opening in the ice. You don't have to keep all the ice off, it's actually best to leave most of the ice intact, just melt a hole and keep an opening for the gases to be released. The air works well with the heater, or a pump pushing water into the same area of the heater. Either one will move the water, keep the area open.
Yes, if you get an 8 hour outage, you will have to reopen the hole in dead of winter, but a floating heater will do the trick. However, on my floater, it specifically says to not let it freeze into the water. I think the reason for that is that the water may freeze and expand to over the top of the heater, maybe that shouldn't happen, or could burst the casing it's in. On my pond, I only used the heater to melt through the ice, then turn the pump on. Pump stays on the bottom, never freezes down that low. BUT, I can't turn on the pump if there is thick ice, as it takes too long to work it's way through the ice. Another safety caution if you put the heater on top of the ice, WATCH IT! Mine started melting, and then started spinning, and pretty soon the heat rods were heating right through the electric cord! I caught it in time, but it could have shorted it out pronto. I'm tempted to leave it in the pond this year, just plug in when needed. Anyone else do that, let the ice freeze around the heater? Does it work well to plug it in to melt it out again then?
Yes, if you get an 8 hour outage, you will have to reopen the hole in dead of winter, but a floating heater will do the trick. However, on my floater, it specifically says to not let it freeze into the water. I think the reason for that is that the water may freeze and expand to over the top of the heater, maybe that shouldn't happen, or could burst the casing it's in. On my pond, I only used the heater to melt through the ice, then turn the pump on. Pump stays on the bottom, never freezes down that low. BUT, I can't turn on the pump if there is thick ice, as it takes too long to work it's way through the ice. Another safety caution if you put the heater on top of the ice, WATCH IT! Mine started melting, and then started spinning, and pretty soon the heat rods were heating right through the electric cord! I caught it in time, but it could have shorted it out pronto. I'm tempted to leave it in the pond this year, just plug in when needed. Anyone else do that, let the ice freeze around the heater? Does it work well to plug it in to melt it out again then?
waynefrcan
19 years ponding and hopefully 4 more!
Apparently it is backup only as the air pump keeps the whole open and still passes gases past the clear ice dome at colder temps. I'll try and find a link that shows this. Yes new K&H heater with protective guards. I do want to test the bottom water temps to be certain it's all ok, as first year doing this method.
Also it should shut down at times at the bottom with built in thermostat, so not to be running 24/7 which is what would happen here if it floats.
Also it should shut down at times at the bottom with built in thermostat, so not to be running 24/7 which is what would happen here if it floats.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2011
- Messages
- 7,257
- Reaction score
- 4,819
- Location
- near Effingham, Illinois
- Hardiness Zone
- 5b
Very good point, Wayne, about the heater not running as much if it's on the bottom. Totally agree with you there. Will be interested to hear how it works for you. I've had the bottom heaters before for my horse water tanks, but they were meant for metal, not seen any that are made for plastic or rubber. Will have to keep and eye out for that. It would be far better to have it on the bottom, plug in and unplug as needed, rather than getting frozen into the top, but I wonder if the top freezes even with the aeration, if the heater will make a difference. That's what I'll be watching from your point of view!
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,432
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
My red "cattle trough" heater is cheap and tough, and has froze over the top on occasion, like when heavy snow falls over top and then a big hard minis 35 or more freeze, then it has. They build those heaters pretty tough, they are made for "big cattle" and their "big heads" must knock them around pretty hard I imagine.
I did have a 250 watt sinking trough heater a few years ago, I used to keep it in this smaller pond I once had. The ice can get pretty thick with just them, and when it's really cold they did not keep a hole open for me. Although I never tried it with a bubbler, but did have running water. Wayne let us know how your style works, I am alway looking for better cost effective ways to heat pond.
I did have a 250 watt sinking trough heater a few years ago, I used to keep it in this smaller pond I once had. The ice can get pretty thick with just them, and when it's really cold they did not keep a hole open for me. Although I never tried it with a bubbler, but did have running water. Wayne let us know how your style works, I am alway looking for better cost effective ways to heat pond.
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,432
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
The Pond and pump kits that I have bought before, they always give you a crappy filter. I don't use the filter that come with alot of the pump/filter kits. I buy a bigger better one. Good time to look for deals on good filters. I have all underwater filters and pumps. I will try to find the name of one of the better filters for winter that I am using. I threw out the box. Will ask the dealer I got the filter from when I see him. Got to run to work..... 
waynefrcan
19 years ponding and hopefully 4 more!
Country E, here is the heater
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/370479769899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Good price.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/370479769899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Good price.
waynefrcan
19 years ponding and hopefully 4 more!
I had my heater on the bottom last winter but that was when I had rocks on the bottom of my pond. I took the rocks off the bottom this spring but some have fallen in from the top of the pond so I will put my heater on one of them.