New house with old pond Brown water issues.

[rellascout]

I would do it now. This will give it ample time to rejuvenate itself before cold weather sets in.

Thoughts on replacing the liner?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thoughts on replacing the liner?

Only it is damaged or appears deteriorating. Or...if it just gives you peace of mind.

 

[MitchM]

...
Sad to say, but the 'bog' will not clear itself anymore than any other biofilter will clear itself. It must be done manually. ...

Although I don't have a "bog", I have noticed that my aquaponics bed will clear itself of organic debris once plant density is reduced.

 

[rellascout]

Based on the information that you have provided one has to assume that it has been several years since this 'bog' has been flushed, if ever!
Sad to say, but the 'bog' will not clear itself anymore than any other biofilter will clear itself. It must be done manually. You will go through a terrific amount of batting to show any real improvement in the water clarity and still have a clogged 'bog'....the source of the problem.
The only option that I see is to do a complete clean-out of the 'bog'. This will admittedly be a tedious and nasty job in order to correct a problem that you had no hand in creating.
What are the surface measurements of this 'bog'?

Bog is 13' x 7'. I was able to contact the previous owner of the house and he informed me that he would "try" to get debris out in the fall each year but has never done a full cleanout. The owner before him did not clean it out either. So this bog has never been fully cleaned out and it shows.

I would estimate that there is about 7" to 8" of crap under a lot of plants and plant roots. It is going to take a lot of effort to get this stuff out and then there is nowhere to truly flush the bog to. Looks like a pretty old school DIY design that was not done for the long haul in mind. It is not very deep. I would guess that is was originally 1' to 2' deep. There is PVC under the rock which in theory is distributing the water into the bog but by now I am sure that much of it is clogged and is channeling.

I am not sure how I am going to get all of the muck out of the bog. Basically has a big of a mess on my hands. Might be time to look for a contractor who can do the grunt work for me and then allow me to focus on the rebuild.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Bog is 13' x 7'. I was able to contact the previous owner of the house and he informed me that he would "try" to get debris out in the fall each year but has never done a full cleanout. The owner before him did not clean it out either. So this bog has never been fully cleaned out and it shows.

I would estimate that there is about 7" to 8" of crap under a lot of plants and plant roots. It is going to take a lot of effort to get this stuff out and then there is nowhere to truly flush the bog to. Looks like a pretty old school DIY design that was not done for the long haul in mind. It is not very deep. I would guess that is was originally 1' to 2' deep. There is PVC under the rock which in theory is distributing the water into the bog but by now I am sure that much of it is clogged and is channeling.

I am not sure how I am going to get all of the muck out of the bog. Basically has a big of a mess on my hands. Might be time to look for a contractor who can do the grunt work for me and then allow me to focus on the rebuild.

Since what will be involved in cleaning this 'bog' is not 'Rocket Science' I would think that some supervised 'temp' labor would fill-the-bill. You may determine that rebuilding the 'bog' would be a positive move.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Although I don't have a "bog", I have noticed that my aquaponics bed will clear itself of organic debris once plant density is reduced.

What is the substrate in your aquaponics bed? And what is the thickness of this substrate?
What organic matter other than fish food related collects in your aquaponics system?.

 

[MitchM]

What is the substrate in your aquaponics bed? And what is the thickness of this substrate?
What organic matter other than fish food related collects in your aquaponics system?.

1/2" expanded clay pellets
12" deep
dead roots

 

[Meyer Jordan]

1/2" expanded clay pellets
12" deep
dead roots

The explanation for your grow bed clearing itself as opposed to 'bogs' is two major differences.
1) Depth of substrate. 12' as opposed to 18" or greater in 'bogs'.
2) composition of organic solids. Plants grown in aquaponics are rarely woody hence are very low in cellulose and lignins which are very slow (weeks even months) to breakdown into their chemical components. 'Bogs' are subjected to these substances continuously.

 

[MitchM]

A couple of other differences are that in an aquaponics grow bed, there are worms (red wigglers) present plus the bed and organic matter is exposed to air 50% of the time due to the flush and fill design of the plumbing.
Are there any "bogs" designed with air injection that you know of?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

A couple of other differences are that in an aquaponics grow bed, there are worms (red wigglers) present plus the bed and organic matter is exposed to air 50% of the time due to the flush and fill design of the plumbing.
Are there any "bogs" designed with air injection that you know of?

Not those constructed for commercial or industrial applications.I would think that this would prove to be a real disadvantage in that any organic debris would not accumulate but remain as TSS in the pond's water column.
In a pond, with or without fish, even with the best of mechanical filtration any biofilter of any design will require periodic backflushing.

 

[MitchM]

Yet in my aquaponic system, there is no mechanical filtration other than the media bed and the only debris at the bottom of the sump is small clay material off the clay pellets.
That makes me think that any organic material is being completely broken down and consumed by the plants.
I also think that the added aeration of the water is helping with the organic matter breakdown.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Yet in my aquaponic system, there is no mechanical filtration other than the media bed and the only debris at the bottom of the sump is small clay material off the clay pellets.
That makes me think that any organic material is being completely broken down and consumed by the plants.
I also think that the added aeration of the water is helping with the organic matter breakdown.

In an aquaponics system this would be expected. The organic debris accumulated in a pond is of a completely different nature, specifically leaf litter which is high in cellulose. Ionic attraction also plays a part in the accumulation of organic TSS being adsorbed by the biofilm present on the substrate.

 

[MitchM]

ok thanks.
Any pond "bog" design I've seen seems to me to be lacking in strong water flow through the "bog", so I wonder if better water/air flow would help the "bog" work more efficiently.
You're right about the leaf litter, outside areas do receive a different degree of organic matter than indoor setups.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

so I wonder if better water/air flow would help the "bog" work more efficiently.

Possibly, but it would have minimal effect on the breakdown of cellulose which primarily involves fungi and the enzymes that they secrete.

 

[rellascout]

Since what will be involved in cleaning this 'bog' is not 'Rocket Science' I would think that some supervised 'temp' labor would fill-the-bill. You may determine that rebuilding the 'bog' would be a positive move.

I am looking into going down that path now. The issue I am contemplating is that I cannot know fully what I am working with until I tear out all the plants and tons of muck. I cannot imagine that the PVC under whatever rock is well built or in good shape so should I have a plan in place to replace it all.

I guess I am looking for ideas on how to redo the bog so that there is a way to do annual clean outs so I can maintain it better in the future. I think the main issue is that the past owners let is get overgrown with invasive plants instead of picking plants that would not propagate as much and take over.

Should I place some form of mechanical filtration on the system before the bog? With the existing pond, which I do not want to redo if I don't have to, the pump is in the bottom of the pond. It has a pump filter bag but no other mechanical filter before it hits the bog. Something like a barrel filter with mats? I am not a bit skimmer guy because in my experience they often get clogged. I am looking for suggestions.

Should I move this to the construction part of the forum?