New construction - Lots of pictures or entire project - How would you seal this pond?

[GaryMoz]

I know such a product does not exist (as far as I know) but in my mind (imaginary product!) I wish someone made like a thick rubberised spray that you could literally spray onto any surface, and after a few hours lay down 3, 4, 5 coats and build up something like a 2mm or more flexible layer that would of course cover any surface and any shape.

Feels like such a product should exist

Here you go, rubber spray You made need a lot of cans . I guess you can get industrial sprays, the problem will be have you got full coverage to the correct thickness.

Then there is all the tanking materials used in building. But remember underground you have tree roots, mammals all potential trying to get through, so it will need to be robust.

By the way, clay expands and contracts depending on water content and temp. When building foundation for my house, we had to put clay boards down, these are just foam, but designed to counter clay heave and movement.

 

[SnaffiNoo]

Here you go, rubber spray You made need a lot of cans . I guess you can get industrial sprays, the problem will be have you got full coverage to the correct thickness.

Then there is all the tanking materials used in building. But remember underground you have tree roots, mammals all potential trying to get through, so it will need to be robust.

By the way, clay expands and contracts depending on water content and temp. When building foundation for my house, we had to put clay boards down, these are just foam, but designed to counter clay heave and movement.

Thanks.
Made me laugh.
Thankfully there are no tree's in the area and never seen any moles around here

On the subject of a paint I did find these two products which I will admit are interesting.

Gottleak Rubberised Waterproof Pond Paint — 5 Play Aquatics

Remaining flexible all year round, this rubberised, waterproof pond paint is manufactured using the highest quality ingredients to a fish safe recipe.

www.5playaquatics.co.uk

Impermax Aqua - Cotswold koi - Pond Construction - Pond Paint

Impermax Aqua is an ideal liquid rubber pond paint suitable for a host of situations and surfaces that is simply painted on.The product is based on ...

www.cotswoldkoi.co.uk

The second one saying how you can end up with an almost 2mm thick layer does sound impressive.
I will admit I wish they sold a very small amount as it would be very interesting to paint onto a surface and one dried, pull it off and see just how strong a layer it creates.

 

[addy1]

Nice build!

Welcome to the forum!

 

[SnaffiNoo]

Nice build!

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks.
It's just a hole at the moment, but in time who knows

By the way, I just clicked your link to "view my pond" and it popped up an error.

 

[Allynn Wilkinson]

First let me say that your pond is going to amazing! I had a similar problem when I decided to build my pond on a slope with ledge and a couple of very large 'immovable" rocks (and also heavy clay soil). Everyone told me to use a liner but I just couldn't figure out a good way to do it.

Here is a photo of everything after it was all dug out (by hand, by me, after two years). The bottom is a solid slab of granite and the pond is about 20' x 10'. I had to go out that far to get it deep enough to overwinter fish

This is a photo of it all cemented up before it was filled

I used rebar around the edge and chicken wire on the walls and around the large rocks.

To seal everything I ended up going with Sani-Tred's Perma Flex and Liquid Rubber. https://sanitred.com/waterproofing-before-after-gallery/ Perma Flex is used in aquariums, pools, ponds and animal enclosures. It goes on very thin but it seals very well (if you can get the surface clean and dry enough). Liquid Rubber is absolute magic. It is made up of a similar chemical mixture to Perma-flex and they will always bond to each other (even years later). You can mix Liquid Rubber up in any thickness and it is VERY useful at filling gaps that need to expand and contract. The second year I had the pond we had a cold winter (I'm in New England) and the granite slab separated from the cement wall at the lowest point. Needless to say, I had to drain the pond in the Spring to fix it and I used a LOT of Liquid Rubber in the gap. 10 years later when I drained the pond to clean it, not only was the Liquid rubber still holding but it still looked like new!

Here is a the pond in aii of it's glory last year. It was built in 2007 and is still going strong!

There are a lot of products out there. I'm sure you'll find something that will work for you.

Allynn

 

[PNDFARY]

Have you looked into NeoPond or Pond Armor? Expensive, but might be something to think about. I didn’t go that way with my concrete pond and have already found a crack

 

[PNDFARY]

First let me say that your pond is going to amazing! I had a similar problem when I decided to build my pond on a slope with ledge and a couple of very large 'immovable" rocks (and also heavy clay soil). Everyone told me to use a liner but I just couldn't figure out a good way to do it.

Here is a photo of everything after it was all dug out (by hand, by me, after two years). The bottom is a solid slab of granite and the pond is about 20' x 10'. I had to go out that far to get it deep enough to overwinter fish
View attachment 165121

This is a photo of it all cemented up before it was filled
View attachment 165122

I used rebar around the edge and chicken wire on the walls and around the large rocks.

To seal everything I ended up going with Sani-Tred's Perma Flex and Liquid Rubber. https://sanitred.com/waterproofing-before-after-gallery/ Perma Flex is used in aquariums, pools, ponds and animal enclosures. It goes on very thin but it seals very well (if you can get the surface clean and dry enough). Liquid Rubber is absolute magic. It is made up of a similar chemical mixture to Perma-flex and they will always bond to each other (even years later). You can mix Liquid Rubber up in any thickness and it is VERY useful at filling gaps that need to expand and contract. The second year I had the pond we had a cold winter (I'm in New England) and the granite slab separated from the cement wall at the lowest point. Needless to say, I had to drain the pond in the Spring to fix it and I used a LOT of Liquid Rubber in the gap. 10 years later when I drained the pond to clean it, not only was the Liquid rubber still holding but it still looked like new!

Here is a the pond in aii of it's glory last year. It was built in 2007 and is still going strong!

View attachment 165123

There are a lot of products out there. I'm sure you'll find something that will work for you.

Allynn

Allyn — this is glorious! How fortunate for you to have those immoveable rocks. Do you have fish? Is Sain-tired non-toxic to them?

 

[GBBUDD]

the first thing i would do is to run a wide bead of polyurethane caulking on your rock and to the concrete it is not a matter of if it is a matter of when you are going to get stress cracks between the two. though they are similar products rock and concrete neither is good at flexing and this is when through expansion and contraction you will get these cracks. then take your pick of water proofers / sealers.

nice job by they way it looks great

 

[Allynn Wilkinson]

Allyn — this is glorious! How fortunate for you to have those immoveable rocks. Do you have fish? Is Sain-tired non-toxic to them?

Oh yes. Lots and lots of fish and frogs. Sanitred is totally non-toxic once it dries. I even did a repair at the shallow end when there were fish in the pond. I sort of panicked when some of the Permaflex dripped into the pond but it just cured there into a string and the fish were fine.

I remember I had looked into Pond Armor back in 2007 but I don't think I could get it in the US at the time. Does that seem right? I have a feeling it's all about the same kind of stuff.

THE biggest thing when applying any coating is to make sure the surface is clean and dry. So, yeah... there I am, out there with a power washer cleaning my rocks and then drying them with an old towel. Neighbors must have thought I was cracked! If the surface isn't clean (enough) the coating just peels off eventually and you get to drain the pond and try again next year. Been there. Done that. Eventually (17 years on) you get a thick enough coating that it holds water. The Liquid Rubber is absolute magic, though. If money were no object I'd just coat the whole thing with that. Thick. Impermeable. It can even hold back water under pressure from the back side.

 

[Allynn Wilkinson]

the first thing i would do is to run a wide bead of polyurethane caulking on your rock and to the concrete it is not a matter of if it is a matter of when you are going to get stress cracks between the two. though they are similar products rock and concrete neither is good at flexing and this is when through expansion and contraction you will get these cracks. then take your pick of water proofers / sealers.

nice job by they way it looks great

I've had cracks between the rock and concrete already. Almost immediately. I sealed them with Liquid Rubber which is made of the same chemical component as Pemaflex. Since the rock and concrete had already been coated with Permaflex, the Liquid Rubber created a chemical seal. Liquid Rubber is true to it's name. It really is like rubber when it cures and it can be used to just about any reasonable thickness. I think my patch at the deepest point (where it cracked first) is about 18 inches long and 6 inches wide at the widest point. The thickness is probably close to an inch at some point and crammed as far into the crack as I could. When I drained the pond to clean it ten years later the patch still looked good as new. The trick is the chemical seal (and getting the surfaces SUPER clean). Living on ledge for the past 20 years I've really learned the way big, BIG rocks move. I've had water spurt out of boulders after a heavy rain storm and I know even the biggest rocks move at least a little with the frost heaves in winter

 

[PNDFARY]

I've had cracks between the rock and concrete already. Almost immediately. I sealed them with Liquid Rubber which is made of the same chemical component as Pemaflex. Since the rock and concrete had already been coated with Permaflex, the Liquid Rubber created a chemical seal. Liquid Rubber is true to it's name. It really is like rubber when it cures and it can be used to just about any reasonable thickness. I think my patch at the deepest point (where it cracked first) is about 18 inches long and 6 inches wide at the widest point. The thickness is probably close to an inch at some point and crammed as far into the crack as I could. When I drained the pond to clean it ten years later the patch still looked good as new. The trick is the chemical seal (and getting the surfaces SUPER clean). Living on ledge for the past 20 years I've really learned the way big, BIG rocks move. I've had water spurt out of boulders after a heavy rain storm and I know even the biggest rocks move at least a little with the frost heaves in winter

Allynn — what are your thoughts on using the liquid rubber just as a patch onto (very clean, as you say) concrete? If necessary, I will line my whole pond (which is small in comparison to some others here) but I’d rather not.

 

[Allynn Wilkinson]

It's got to stick to a coating of Permaflex but nothing says that you have to coat the whole pond. I know you can get a sample kit of a little bit of everything: https://sanitred.com/shop/sample-pa...EdoHp6D0nlpUuGT8WqOYNBBM4XQFqSlxoCIpcQAvD_BwE

Worse case scenario it doesn't work and you're out $40 and a little time. How big is the crack? And, of course, if it does work you can always go back and add more later as needed. I did one major crack repair the second year at the deepest end and then another at the shallow end maybe in year 5.

 

[PNDFARY]

It's got to stick to a coating of Permaflex but nothing says that you have to coat the whole pond. I know you can get a sample kit of a little bit of everything: https://sanitred.com/shop/sample-pa...EdoHp6D0nlpUuGT8WqOYNBBM4XQFqSlxoCIpcQAvD_BwE

Worse case scenario it doesn't work and you're out $40 and a little time. How big is the crack? And, of course, if it does work you can always go back and add more later as needed. I did one major crack repair the second year at the deepest end and then another at the shallow end maybe in year 5.

That makes good sense. I have seen the sample kits and debated whether to try that. There are two hairline cracks that I tried to seal with silicone aquarium sealant. They are both in convex curves. I’m going to get a sample kit and give it a try. Thank you so much!

 

[Allynn Wilkinson]

That makes good sense. I have seen the sample kits and debated whether to try that. There are two hairline cracks that I tried to seal with silicone aquarium sealant. They are both in convex curves. I’m going to get a sample kit and give it a try. Thank you so much!

Definitely worth a try. Clean, clean CLEAN the area and remove all of your previous attempts. Then coat the are with Permaflex. It goes like a very thin paint. I'd say two inches or more wide. The wider the better. Let it dry well (keep it clean. Then the liquid rubber. Keep that within the Permaflex path and then top it off with more Permaflex to finish the whole thing off. I bit it will work. I had a friend who sealed a crack in a fountain basin that way