Natural Swimming Pond Help Please

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I think these suggestions have all been helpful. Positive? Maybe you just aren't hearing what you want to hear.

Here's all I - and maybe @Meyer Jordan (but I won't speak for him - he's years ahead of me in this pond game) are trying to say: you have two choices for a swimming "hole". Either you build a pool - clean, clear, blue water - and use chemicals to keep it free of any natural growth; or you build a pond and rely on nature to help you keep it safe for swimming. You can't have both. Sure you can vacuum and scrub your "natural" pond bottom all day long, but the pond will keep trying to achieve what nature intends. Who will win depends on who has the most longevity.

As to which is more appealing, I guess the old saying is true - "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Personally I think your pond is lovely.
 

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bigring, everyone is just telling you that a biofilm will develop unless you plan on adding chemicals which then makes it a non-natural swimming pool. Go with the blue liner if that's what you want, we are just telling you what all of our ponds look like on the bottom. No judgment, no negative suggestions, just our experience.
Rock your blue bottom, we are just trying to help prepare you for the inevitable green growth on the bottom.
This link is the most successful conversion I've seen, he might offer some suggestions.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/showcase/my-organic-swimming-pond.51/

Keep us posted, I love the idea of a swimming pond.
 
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Great - thanks for pointing that out again.

Anyone else with some positive suggestions?
I'll point it out again.
In a traditional chlorinated pool you do everything you can to discourage periphyton growth on the liner, but in a NSP you actually need it and will get it whether you want it or not.
If your kids don't like that slippery dark green growth on the liner my positive suggestion would be to abandon the NSP idea and go with a tradition chlorinated system, or better yet a salt water swimming pool system which can more evenly regulate the amount of chlorine in the water and keep it at the minimal levels necessary for keeping your nice new blue liner blue.
Without a bottom drain and tangential pond returns TPRs you are always going to get deleterious build up on the pond that will be stirred up by people swimming in the pond. Yes you'l be able to vacuum it up easier without the pea gravel, but you'll need to vacuum daily.
I would suggest the minimum you do is pour a layer of cement on the bottom of your pond to cover all those wrinkles and make vacuuming easier.
 
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Thank you kindly to all.
I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Regardless, I do appreciate the advice.

I am very aware that the bottom will be slippery. The sides, the rock, the plants, everything in the pond/pool is covered in bio film. It's good, it's what keeps the balance....I understood all of this prior to my request for advice. I researched the pond for over a year before I even placed a shovel in the soil so am aware. Have I made mistakes? You bet. But so did all of us, and continue to do so, when we started.

I'm trying to keep this as natural as possible. I love that my girls look for bugs and critters and help plant plants in the pond. I don't want a regular pool - that's not what I am going for.

Ill try to be more specific....can anyone suggest something that I can do to the bottom (floor) of the pond (which is only a portion of the ecosystem) to make it lighter in colour and smooth enough to vacuum? Yes, I know that it will become slippery as bio film grows on it - yes, dirt will get in the bottom (like all pools and all ponds) and yes, I will need to vacuum this. I don't mind a green layer. I'm trying to make it a lighter colour to brighten it up. That's it, that's all.

In the photos the liner is completely out of place from the cleaning process. It was completely smooth when I placed the pea gravel in. It will again be completely smooth.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Ill try to be more specific....can anyone suggest something that I can do to the bottom (floor) of the pond (which is only a portion of the ecosystem) to make it lighter in colour and smooth enough to vacuum? Yes, I know that it will become slippery as bio film grows on it - yes, dirt will get in the bottom (like all pools and all ponds) and yes, I will need to vacuum this. I don't mind a green layer. I'm trying to make it a lighter colour to brighten it up. That's it, that's all.

As was suggested earlier.....concrete.
 

tbendl

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bigrig, I say try the blue. I have seen another person use a pool liner to make her pond and she loved it. We just wanted to make sure you didn't get crushed when it didn't stay bright blue.
As far as putting a liner over the existing one, their is different information out there that says it's a bad idea but I just cut the everloving heck out of the liner that was in my pond and put one over the top. I haven't had an issue with it.
 
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My thoughts as well initially (original post) But it's going to be very expensive. Will have to weigh the pros and cons.

Found this product: https://liquidrubber.ca/?gclid=CMyJjuKlu9QCFZSNswodTNwAOA

Spoke directly to the rep who stated that he doesn't know if it'd work in my situation. On the product page it states it does adhere to EPDM which contradicted to what he said.
 
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bigrig, I say try the blue. I have seen another person use a pool liner to make her pond and she loved it. We just wanted to make sure you didn't get crushed when it didn't stay bright blue.
As far as putting a liner over the existing one, their is different information out there that says it's a bad idea but I just cut the everloving heck out of the liner that was in my pond and put one over the top. I haven't had an issue with it.

Did you glue it to the bottom (ie other liner)? I reckon you'd have to glue it down completely so no water can get under it and lift it. I'm not removing my epdm as it covers all of my plant zones as well as the swimming sections.
 
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bigring, everyone is just telling you that a biofilm will develop unless you plan on adding chemicals which then makes it a non-natural swimming pool. Go with the blue liner if that's what you want, we are just telling you what all of our ponds look like on the bottom. No judgment, no negative suggestions, just our experience.
Rock your blue bottom, we are just trying to help prepare you for the inevitable green growth on the bottom.
This link is the most successful conversion I've seen, he might offer some suggestions.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/showcase/my-organic-swimming-pond.51/

Keep us posted, I love the idea of a swimming pond.
Ha! That's too funny. Tom lives across the river (in Quebec) from me and we were in contact at the time of both of our construction phases. I hadn't even thought of giving him a shout until I realized it was him posting in that link! So thanks so much for that tbendl!!
 

tbendl

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No I didn't glue it. I just cut the bottom of the original one so water would drain. I also made sure that my new liner was wide enough at the edge to cover the old liner and I ran it down a slight slope so I didn't have to worry about runoff getting in.
 

tbendl

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Ha! That's too funny. Tom lives across the river (in Quebec) from me and we were in contact at the time of both of our construction phases. I hadn't even thought of giving him a shout until I realized it was him posting in that link! So thanks so much for that tbendl!!
He should be a huge help since he did a phenomenal job on his conversion!
 
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Gotcha. That's not going to work with mine since I am not wanting to put an entire new liner in - it would mean removing all of the wood, cemented rock wall, plant zones, etc.
 
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Hi Craig. It's Tom (from Chelsea). I'm replying to your email and decided to post here. It's nice to see that your pond looks so great. Quite a beautiful urban oasis you've created. kudos!

Mine is also doing very well. By your description, it seems you followed an Aquascape type of water circulation system (and algae control) for the swimming area, and adapted David Pagan Butler's air based water circulation system for the planted areas. As you may recall, I went entirely with David's air concept. Both approaches work, but I believe David's is equally effective yet simpler, less costly to install, and less expensive in terms of electricity cost. I don't regret it at all.

You say your water is clear, so your overall ecosystem seems to be working effectively. It appears that your new goal is to have a clean bottom that is easily vacuumed, and a blue color liner more akin to a conventional pool in most part to make the swimming experience more desirable for your kids.

First, I agree that installing pea gravel was a mistake which you have now corrected. I didn't put anything over my EDPM. As for what to do next?.....I say, nothing. So, I agree with the advice you've been given by others here. Don't even try and install anything over the existing liner whether it be a blue glued liner, netting, concrete, whatever. If you do, you will be sorry and end up with more problems and maintenance than you bargained for. The reddish coloration is likely staining from the pea gravel. Whether or not it goes away, it will at least diminish when the natural biofilm returns.

Your liner and mine look similar, including the creases though my shallow end is very smooth, and mine doesn't have any reddish staining. Even with the creases, vacuuming shouldn't be a problem so long as you accept that this is a pond and not a conventional swimming pool where you see EVERYTHING! My water is perfectly clear to 8' deep, yet because of the black liner, they barely show if at all. Visitors don't even notice. This is a big reason why you do not want to have a blue liner. As has been said, in a natural water environment, it won't stay looking blue for long anyhow, and because of that, could even look horrible, at least while it transitions to its eventual state. Personally, me and everyone I know loves the natural lake-like clear greenish hue that a black liner creates.

I have two vacuuming approaches.....a homemade one that I constructed, and an Oase Pond Vacuum that I bought. I use the Oase for most of the pond area including the planting zones, but as my deep end in about 8' deep, the Oase won't draw from that deep, so as must use it in the shallow areas. This is where my homemade system comes in and with it, I'm able to recirculate the cleaned, warm pond water back into the pond.

I think you mentioned weekly vacuuming, and I have to ask why? I do a good vacuuming upon opening and closing, but remember that unlike a chemically induced pristine clear blue pool, a pond, even a swimming pond, is a natural (more like engineers simulation) environment where cleaned perfection should not, and cannot be the goal. A slippery (bio)film will sit on the bottom more often than not. As people walk on the shallow bottom, the biofilm will kick up and make it seem that there's gunk in suspension in the water, but it's no different than what one would see with eyes open when swimming in a lake flailing around. Occasional light vacuuming especially in the shallow areas where swimmers walk/wade should make it ok, but some people may find it slippery or 'icky' regardless because they're not used to such a swimming experience, especially kids, but it's something that folks just have to accept. It's well accepted at my pond. If you don't just accept it, you'll drive yourself nuts. If the plants are healthy, algae is under control and the water is very clear (periodically tested), that's as much as you can ask for.

The only thing about mine I would've done differently is to have left the regeneration (planting) zones deeper, like 2-2.5' rather than the 18" that I did, especially closest to the edge of the swimming area. Note that I filled my planting areas with layers of sand and pretty river rock. If I would haveleft deeper, I would've been able to leave all the lily tubs where they are rather than having to move them to the bottom of the shallow end for the winter. No big deal though, and worth it. Using tubs for all my plants, I can control the plant population so it looks like I'll want it and not be so wild and unkept looking. Personal preference though. Last season because it was so dry and hot for so long, I did have a string algae bloom. I'm working at solving this by getting a lot more plants in the planting areas by separating out my existing lilies into many more tubs. This should give much better surface coverage to minimize algae.

So, I advise to just leave well enough alone, fill it up with water and enjoy. Don't even try for it to be a conventional pool. The kids should just have to get over it.

Good luck!

Tom
 
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Thanks for the suggestion usman. I think the same issue would happen with a pool liner over top - wouldn't it float up? You say you've used it for years - how do you keep it down?
its basicaly a net from which water can pass , so it wil not suspend as watertight plastic wud , u can test small piece of it , if u add weight at 4 corners and sew string through the mesh it will stay down i think pr u can go for wider net , imagine a fishing net in water does it float? i didnt use it for this purpose but i used it in a different way underwater . i have also seen people using joot in artificial beaches as base
 

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