Natural Swimming Pond Help Please

Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
Country
Canada
1sJI7i-h3FSvmH-9kUAEdab4xdyO9gi_IOWq_dy_GN2UQ4sYiCgPL-uL9yx8aTTZOYpxgSIjB54cn52kqN1k4A0S-Kwc7r-nDBKSwk0H36q47PaAeiL3fK37ABGqRDd0sPcTchoSDMYQKvI-TnS6nej82KPRBfxo77e9omMIJgK5W_pHwZUo_EGwQ82tkym6TBFPMv2XYiBYEinOB52ClZLUu3WkZus1nU5mfIis8UJxaOXSuRVQK-ReFx9yAWJgbdljgjsCZzHkn0rHRDSOaE056zXfwXfBNSy0tDKlrxUk4pla_RuKVvVlgJcXdcmqxJnFNbgyBo0O88Z3Ixa4k5Iti89zoxE7YSTt1xkK5BfZa5_gW5-J-FcdRZyhKXSiyVdns530jhQ2ifokIg-DgkjnKqQe7uFFHlWTfn9ciTANwemqf5AidZwCmDMR0McTGIN2Ya0ZwYp5vMgNOhjlbB8ItfT9r3jygF0B5tDxyamJTmYU8es2Be7df4W1TAsFZZTf68-CImJKCC2BJeBP-WPFcm7zoNSkTv9WhryuPoOCPfHc6mGu7Qid9bETuv9azbshQx3entlXEtCssxL8G4uezHItSGmo4vLi7oEnbisfyHOTU8AT=w1046-h784-no


Hi, long time listener, first time caller . . .

I've come to this forum many times over the past few years during the process of building my natural swimming pond (above). So many talented and visionaries here on this forum. I learned a heap building it and made lots of mistakes. Probably the biggest blunder was adding pea gravel in the bottom of the pond. I did a metric shite ton of research and came across to different schools of thoughts regarding pea gravel in a pond. I decided to go this route and did so for a couple of reasons - keep it "natural" looking and making it easy on the feet when swimming.

HOWEVER, pea gravel in a pond where no little feet will be stirring up the detritis and dirt caught in it over two years really did a job on the water quality. I got a late start on my pond this spring due to a shoulder injury and cold, wet weather. I decided to remove the pea gravel and find another solution for the bottom.

A little about my pond . . . .it is roughly 35' long x 15' wide (not counting the planted regeneration zones) x 6.5' deep (in the deepest section). I have a skimmer/mechanical filter with a submerged pump that sends the water through a UV sterilizer, then onto the water fall which contains some bioballs in it's weir. I have a 12" air diffuser in the deep end which pushes water upward while at the same time adding oxygen. I am in the process of building two 55 gal drum fines filters as well which will come before the UV. I used David Pagean Buttler's air lift system for the plant zones. I keep no fish. In the summer we share the swimming with a frog or two.

xvvb_Ls9TvU3r2HX8kiV07v_Pb_iL75C2hJjfxM7WFiN2k64Pg2rz6xk5WsfCC44YO8mYJGuZxuuQbuWjCeI_8Jvb5hAbHG36wpWAYPmKClWuxhVsfDZPPWtIG9kMiqB48oKbYdQBJ_TtEDzbXrHsSjocw9OO8ZbSRmdQrp8Hg4KiXtyJufdFxRXClXj1E39NENgQd03YDEi5QOxCYYaziqM_UaXRXdcZ-67iso9yo4xZxuU4X8StFSr6ka8_lNFWGNDMXkRD21iHGuEweflJxyiDIxUGgr1CUlPDNVJIAIQDxFDHcpW-Gn7dZDtWTg3uCBgdB-887FWo6n0sC5Kv9NGjlSh5wIFgbD1-5XB_H4cTUiINQhO6GvVVOfeOCvTA30OJ6MOqXUOveGf6mhG1SVPn9w0t3t1FMiDSbDohmU13T0aEYPiWvudW2fZfKDznyQsBR5IUNMfLFHOLGXqD68l-8jahWcm40B9J0uPOPYXJtaA4fXl5pjslfpOApQKcpom8KaBgPFpBKmdIMej04RhyLqdtc4eX_lhuHzPosF3gX377y1YmLPCa4CwK8G09fN5js9CVxJpqzzmfmhgT16pnQ7Ho0C1obLtQj0V9QGjAhhZTin9=w1046-h784-no


Water drained - don't use pea gravel in the bottom of a natural swimming pond. It gets really gross. I had bought a very good pond vacuum toward the end of last season but it was very difficult to vacuum the dirt from the bottom as it was mixed into the pea gravel (which was 2"- 3" deep). The vacuum sucked up gravel and cause the vacuum to work too hard.


H3DigfjlEtm6AIm4jdE8coCpeI-mksxp0dxwP7YcO6olu2OXFahxKhdRg06U7aqLBld1jrsurUh6ARYGQRgvIN9RWbTxeKdrghuGu_ElMMt5girWS8WOw30zwoJ_G1zMqHn9obZmjEuSrQ0ltF0k_f5LKyd0CUacfduHxdayWvz5DxZSr4LUPETZBjFNkSlHbMCukSkYzQv_EPeFgoHaosnOTYo_7WkMmn_hE3zLfSbxIy2nWwm6TKlUEXouyQzN7xtgXwmqPV99md0Y28vVQwK_r2et_lUyXq4Hp4RKwJgi2ZCKACqtRHW1SBH7esU1imEDJC4JERyFAflsfoCZ4KiSzYaD2DKTUvBQNYv0FmPInopBt2fKOg0nVH9-KiOLyiXlT8LusgnsP4BkoaJlGSXKY6qvZ8fevvqOKGvsQc2cLBlmu0cL-5KrFXc8ZaDsm5MIiXYAWVnuUu9GgSLxlHLkOA91nTg3L6zOAt6QK5P9Pa9w4Ae2nFituIc8bpGZ4n9s9WlgI-XPMw7JWUQxHzLbuA_7VvtOS34v4SyEHUyC8AwQyp3qVgoZVyuT4nXTuaKKd8WNN_sXhVH72KgZTHZ9X0fc8h_x7gDHdYaPHaiXChGv=w1046-h784-no


Pea gravel being vacuumed out. I would have shovelled it by hand but my shoulder was buggered up. The industrial vacuum truck had it empty in under two hours!

6O_L1vHnm1sKs3F-1affwS0KtSsKZYuNrF6mzSX6YBnqy28FoNCVUi2IJsfY2hNHdGdGz47d16f4xgZrXZdmNVOl50pPwJ5LzWqOFmB-CqsnPjGKPBUmeSo3fQ8_6cEs2cvAkohCW7QDDuNwgAQkFvFgb6FRJ6de91ZuU7KSxsZTB23fVDgJjBcsCP3aV05JP7lPd0zZt6apRURMOlEnGPw98Qq8nknFOvmQJ6PL5ZypJXWMxXMx3QIVRHso7sUZIMykSvAGsaR_tzWrWB76CRPmO99Nund7hGI1tI0TIByVJgHEg1XmmenG1A1C5PJ2gCkDMnj0BNS4AultnFmlRHb7HXvgPPXyIVcqV7cjWOYfLUoxE9GOxtNmNWfQdmonFawL86CJcACZ3zeUbsBH7pNE1dv66NgxKlhcWly_XMyKe3AMUjCCjNzhapdZj48s57I5griVwuCqG-U1Dnn_WMmR-A_RPzL_oMFj-08adLmhkP89QFvkklgfe36mGwwetjcIBX8cXlyDk26M9GUACrr28fElXmyfrfwKNrVK1PIHSwC_dI8NBe8aEhjIv6xrGO2-FwSvFsVPIE_yv4PNWb8QfeZB-Mp0-UpbByV9fX3vMT8S=w588-h784-no


Pressure washed after pea gravel was removed. Really hard to get the red "stuff" off. It appeared to me to be mineral deposit from the pea gravel? It is like it is imbedded into the EPDM - it's not slimy or organic. I had a layer of geo-textile between the EPDM and the pea gravel.

Sooooo. Now what? My initial thoughts were to pour a concrete bottom so that I'd have a smooth surface to vacuum, stay ahead of the build up of dirt and keep the water quality in check. BUT, that's going to be very expensive (truck delivering and pumping concrete in - $$$). So my next thought was adding a regular pool liner - blue in colour (my two girls weren't crazy about having a dark bottom despite the water quality being very good). I figured I would only go up as high as the cedar wood with the blue pool liner. The only trouble would be the liner, once in place and water added would float up the minute water got between it and the EPDM.

Would gluing the pool liner to the EPDM work? If so, what kind of glue would work? Dab or dots of glue randomly spread about or using a foam roller (like painting)?

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,356
Reaction score
13,778
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
First of all - your pond is gorgeous! Great job on the overall build and landscape.

I think your biggest mistake with the gravel bottom was the depth - a shallow layer wouldn't have caused the issues you had, but it also probably wouldn't have given you the type of substrate you were trying to achieve.

I know nothing of swimming ponds, but I'm thinking the idea of liner over liner is just asking for trouble. Other smarter folks will chime in here soon, I'm sure!

Welcome to the GPF!
 
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
973
Reaction score
492
Hardiness Zone
13b
have u considered bottom drains for the filtration system ?
concrete or tiles seems to be permanent and more durable solution but can be costly and if it cracks or punctures liner? how about pebbles ?
 
Last edited:

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,678
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
Why not just leave it be? Biofilm and periphyton will soon cover it. All commercially construct NSPs (Natural Swimming Ponds) have bare liner bottoms, even the large public facility in Minneapolis Mn. Employing any porous substrate on the bottom is an open invitation to various aquatic pathogens that are dangerous to humans to make themselves at home.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
Country
Canada
Usman, putting in a bottom drain now is not in the cards. Pebbles - just got rid of them for the very reason Meyer Jordan stated. Thought about putting in a regular swimming pool liner (custom fit) but the issue is it will rise up as soon as water gets behind it. I thought about putting the liner up to the wooden part of the pool - so that you'd only see it on the bottom and bottom sides. Could I glue the liner to the EPDM? Would it hold?

As stated, I want to change the colour to make it look more inviting to my kids. Yes, of course it's going to get a layer of bio-film on it, but it would still be blue. I need the bottom smooth so that I can vacuum it on a regular basis.
Thanks for the suggestions folks - keep them coming.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,356
Reaction score
13,778
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
I think you're asking for trouble trying to double up the liner. I guess I don't understand why a blue liner with a natural bio-film growth is more appealing than a black liner with the same. If your kids don't find that beautiful spot appealing, I'd get new kids.

JUST KIDDING! :ROFLMAO:
 

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,678
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
@Lisak1 has a point. a carpet of green periphyton will look the same on a blue liner as on a black liner....green. And there is no way to prevent this growth in a NSP. It is one of the disclaimers that the profession installers of these aquatic venues mention....that it will have algae growth and it will be slippery. Installing a pool liner over the EPDM is an exercise in futility,
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,356
Reaction score
13,778
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
Actually I think the black liner would look better as you won't even see the green growth. On a blue liner it will just look dirty all the time. The blue will show all the dirt so to speak.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
Country
Canada
Ha! When they're fighting with each other I often think the same thing! JJ

I'm sure you can appreciate the appeal of blue clear water. I know I do.

I did find a product - it's basically liquid rubber and can adhere to EPDM - just looking into it now. You can tint the sealant to pretty much any colour. https://liquidrubber.ca/pages/pond-repair

Waiting to hear back from a rep
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
Country
Canada
"has a point. a carpet of green periphyton will look the same on a blue liner as on a black liner....green. And there is no way to prevent this growth in a NSP. It is one of the disclaimers that the profession installers of these aquatic venues mention....that it will have algae growth and it will be slippery. Installing a pool liner over the EPDM is an exercise in futility" . . . .

I agree with you on the liner. However, there are many traditional swimming pools, that have traditional blue liners, that have been converted to natural swimming ponds with great success.

I'm aware of the issues - this pond business is a huge learning curve - just looking for constructive advice.

Thanks folks - keep it coming!
 
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
973
Reaction score
492
Hardiness Zone
13b
how about green mesh like the one used for greenhouse shelter? i have used that underwater for years , it stays same even its colour remains same , can b blue too , will prevent from slipping too , u can anchor it at 4 corners it will remain static , easy to clean using brush
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
7
Country
Canada
Thanks for the suggestion usman. I think the same issue would happen with a pool liner over top - wouldn't it float up? You say you've used it for years - how do you keep it down?
 

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,678
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
I agree with you on the liner. However, there are many traditional swimming pools, that have traditional blue liners, that have been converted to natural swimming ponds with great success.

Yes, and these blue liners are now covered in green. If they aren't then something is wrong with the entire system.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
31,493
Messages
517,813
Members
13,698
Latest member
KristiMahe

Latest Threads

Top