Natural looking pondless stream/waterfall on a slope

[taherrmann4]

I used solid pvc. 2" from my skimmer to my pump, 2" leaving the pump for about 12" then converted to a 3", at the top of my falls it splits and after the split is converted back to 2". I would go with a bigger pipe if at all possible.

 

[crsublette]

Engineering Tool Box is actually quite a useful website. I didn't realize it until now that most of my pipe references come from this website. PVC - Equivalent Length Friction Loss in Fittings


I've always wondered about the durability of flex pvc. Personally, I would use reinforced braided hose; definitely more expensive and more durable to reduce head height pressur and it is flexible except won't be able to make 90 degree bends and is sturdy as hell. I use this stuff on my farm sprinklers. The stuff gets hit with hard sun, hard heat, freezing air, open to air, and I might have to replace them once every few years ... maybe, but consider the environmental abuse I put them through, which an underground line will never experience.

By heating it up and forming it how you want, you take nothing away from the strength of the pipe. The side wall is still the same thickness. You are just heating it up so its bendable. Same thing they do when they make the pipe at the factory.

Hmmm ... When bending, one wall is expanding (stretching) and another wall is collapsing. I don't see how a the stretched side of the wall would remain the same thickness.

 

[brandonsdad02]

I thought the same thing until I cut a piece out and looked at the walls of the pipe and they looked to be the same as on the straight piece. Maybe when plastic heats up it expands and that is what allows the pipe to bend. Good point tho.

 

[crsublette]

Hmmm, it is probably very slight. Maybe 1 centimeter or so depending on how much of an angle ya try to bend it. Very interesting stuff. Gonna try that .

 

[taherrmann4]

It shouldn't matter the pipes aren't pressurized.

 

[postmandug]

Fun project!! It is going to be awesome when its done. You'll be want'n to relax near it all the time ... before ya know it, ya need to buy more beer!!

50 foot long * 2.5 feet wide * .167 feet deep * 7.48 = 156 gallons. A 300 gallon stock tank will work fine; this gives ya approximately 2 inches more potential depth added to your stream if you want to really throw alot of water down it with a big pump.

How to determine the rating for a pump. Quick example. Aquascape Tsurumi. It is rated for 3630 gph but look at the flow chart. Flow loss occurs with increase head height pressure. If your head height pressure is 12 feet, then this pump's flow is reduced to around 2700 gph. All pumps should have a flow chart in the pump's product description. I have a little dinky water feature and the stream is approximately 30 feet long ((heh, just now went out to step it off)). With my pressurized filter and my plumbing, my head height is close to 15 feet so, using the pump mentioned above, my flow is around 2000gph.

The flow rate definitely determines the depth of the stream. I built my feature so I can divert some flow into the reservoir and, when I do this, I can tell by looking at the stream's rocks that the depth definitely goes down. I am really wanting to double my flow rate to get more depth. That picture is pretty old. I have some taller granite rocks so to allow the water splash around good in the stream and has added some depth to the stream.

Flexible pipe will allow you to possibly reduce head height pressure by not having to use as much plumbing joints.

When choosing pipe size ... To help ya determine friction loss due to pipe size, PVC Pipe Friction Loss and Flow Velocity ... For recommended flow rate due to pipe size at x% PSI, bah, I found a good chart and, son of a, forgot to bookmark it. I would stick to at very least 2 inch pvc.

I have 4 pond-less water features in my front yard. Each has their own basin. After I dug my hole, I lined the hole with some thick heavy duty weed liner as the underlay; then I added 2 layers of pond liner just to make sure they don't get torn. Then, put in some plastic crates. I put my submersible pump in a crate and I cut a door on top of the crate so I could easily get the pump out. Then, I covered the top of the crates with some rock. I did this for each of my water features. I have not had any problems with the pumps getting clogged at all. I suppose the rocks act like a filter, preventing the big stuff from falling into the basin where the pump is. I don't know much about external pumps. I've always used submersibles.

Some stringy looking algae will eventually form in the stream. It will take long time, but it will grow eventually on it. I like it as long as it doesn't get too thick. If it does get too thick, then I sparsely hit the stream with a high pressure washer.

I built big berms on my stream, around 8 inches high; it would take a bunch of damming for water to actually overflow out of it. I got my pond liner extended about two feet extra from the berms on the outside. For my pond-less water feature, I extended the liner a few feet from the basin.

Make sure to make the basin's walls at the right angle so absolutely all of the stream's water returns to the basin, instead of dribbling out of it.

OK, Now I'm really confused. I just found a calculator on pondliner.com's website that says for a stream/waterfall that size I only need about a 69 gallon resevoir.....and I put in the dimensions as follows:

Length - 50 feet
Width - 3 feet
depth - .25 feet

http://www.pondliner...lculator/topics

Doug

 

[addy1]

I get for you............281 in the stream etc and need a basin of 843 gallons. Did you use inches or .25 feet? the depth is in inches, I put in 3 inches

 

[postmandug]

Thanks Addy, yes I did put in .25. I didn't see that the last calculation was in inches instead of feet. That gives me a better understanding of my needs.

 

[postmandug]

Actually, what would be considered a "normal" depth for something like this? I really don't expect to have 3 inches of water flowing down the stream.

Doug

 

[addy1]

I have around an inch maybe a 1/2 inch, on average, deeper where there are little collecting pools in the stream. Next time it is running I will go out and measure it for you. It does draw down my pond when it turns on and refills when it turns off. If I have not run it in a while a lot of water leaves the big pond to fill the stream ponds from down from evaporation.

To have 3 inches you will be using one massive pump.

 

[sissy]

hey if you pump is to big you could always route some it to the pondless pond and put in a large vase or 2 or those besalt stones with holes drilled up the middle .That would really add to the sound

 

[crsublette]

OK, Now I'm really confused. I just found a calculator on pondliner.com's website that says for a stream/waterfall that size I only need about a 69 gallon resevoir.....and I put in the dimensions as follows:

Length - 50 feet
Width - 3 feet
depth - .25 feet

http://www.pondliner...lculator/topics

Yeah, I wish those website calculators would actually show their equation. I tend to stay away from website calculators that hide their equations. I really don't understand why they say ya need "basin should hold 3 time amount of water" instead of "should hold 2 or 5 times". I think they just made this part up to take into consideration of potential overflow from rain fall. I think you would be better off just to have a low spot near your basin where you want the excess water to drain such as from heavy rains.

Russelll Watergardens & Koi - I use this website for all my water volume gallon calculations. Just has equations.

However, I would keep an extra 2~5 feet of pond liner on the outside, fold it under, just in case ya might want to make your stream wider or something.

Actually, what would be considered a "normal" depth for something like this? I really don't expect to have 3 inches of water flowing down the stream.

"normal" is whatever you want it to be. I think the difference between a creek, stream, and river is all about width and depth. I prefer to have a stream so I am pumping around 2000gph giving me a depth of 1~2" inches, but my change in altitude is only around 18"; a bigger pump maybe required for you since your altitude is much steeper. I am gonna go bigger since I think it would look better to me. You can add resistance objects in your streams to increase depth. I put in some 4 inche tall granite rocks in sections of my streams; in these sections, the depth is closer to 3".

Just make sure you are not going to have the stream's water overflow your stream's berms. My berms are around 5~6" high to make sure I have plenty of options.

 

[postmandug]

Actually I'm going to dig down 1-1.5 feet to make the streambed then also have the excess dirt from that to make berms so I should be fine as far as any water going out the sides. Question concerning the reservoir:
Can I use a single piece of liner just for that basin then have the stream liner overhang into that? Glue it, or just let it hang????

Thanks so far for everyone's advice and encouragement!

Doug

 

[sissy]

Use the stuff addy uses which is the pl roofing goop in a tub It works great and is cheap compared to other stuff .

 

[Waterbug]

Can I use a single piece of liner just for that basin then have the stream liner overhang into that? Glue it, or just let it hang????

Just overlap. The only issue is water wicking up between the two liners. So you do want to make a gap between the two liners.

There's an endless number of ways to do this. You can run a bead of silicone caulk on the lower layer and let it dry. Then add the second liner. You can just lay a piece of wood between the two liners or a couple strips of scrap liner, carpet, whatever you have. Pretty fast and simple.