My goldfish pond

[elaerstelle]

the fish pond is good, i am considering change the layout of my garden, fish pond is good.

 

[CometKeith]

Hi elaerstelle, thanks and welcome to the garden pond forum!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Keith, floaters are nice, and they look good in your pond, but I think we all have had them at one point or another, many times before, and now most just prefer other plants that are more hardy and that require no winter care. I am into hornwort these days, cause it comes back nice for me each year and requires no special attention, although I did thin it out from the bottom pond as it too was starting to choke out the waters surface.....

 

[CountryEscape]

I'm just really glad someone has good luck with the floaters! I still want them, but until I figure out how to keep them alive in the pond, not going to get anymore. But, sure enjoy seeing yours, Keith, and getting to enjoy your carefree flowers they produce. Love the water lettuce, too, haven't tried it. Wish I lived closer ....

 

[CometKeith]

Sissy so what do you do with them? They don't go into the pond at all? I heard people in the koi club here donate their wh at the end of the season to the zoo for the hippos to eat. Colleen I bought a small bunch of hornwort last year. I think it was about 6-8 inches long. It did nothing for the first month or so and then grew like wild the rest of the summer. There was a steady stream of air bubbles coming up from it which was really cool and probably good for the fish. I didn't see any of it this spring, just the anacharis that i see every year. I have a lot of that too and I keep removing it as it grows too thick. The frogs like to hide in it though. CE In the last two days I think I tossed like two dozen floaters. Every time I read about someone ending up with a dead fish from low levels of O2 I run out and thin them some more. I could have met you half way. We dropped off our daughter at school in Champaign on Sunday.

 

[CountryEscape]

I don't think my dead fish problem is low O2, but still not certain what the problem is/was. I had another dead fish this morning, small solid orange one. One dead in the Q-tank, so that nixed the idea of putting the last Comet back into the pond. Did a water change on the Q-tank last night, evidently not enough for that little fish. But, as long as they are not dying left and right in the pond, I'm assuming whatever was causing the deaths is waning or running it's course, or I'm washing it away with water changes! Will do another 25% change tonight.
I will be heading to MN for a wedding end of the month, but by then you will be about done with them. Will have to plan it if I go to WI earlier in the year, as I drive either around (preferred) Chicago or through (ALWAYS have problems LOL). Sooner or later I will plan a trip in enough time to contact you and set up a time to stop on way back home. Would love to see your pond and meet your wife. :blueflower:

 

[CometKeith]

CE, Oh sorry ...didn't realize you were having a problem too. I was on another thread where this was a big issue. Hopefully you don't have any more problems. Yes that would be great it you stopped by to meet us. We live 5 minutes off I 94 and just north of Chicago so we would be right on your way to WI. We are empty nesters now and have a lot of time on our hands to socialize! If you want any wh or wl let me know and I'll stop thinning them for a few days. I think I pulled out 15 or 20 plants in the last two days and made a pretty big dent in their numbers for now.

 

[callingcolleen1]

It is good to hear you are having a get together by the pond Keith, I wish I lived close to all my pond friends and wish I could have fellow pond people drop by and enjoy the summer by the pond too! Hope you have nice weather and and safe drive through Chicago CE.

Keith my fish eat most of my hornwort each spring, almost to nothing, and there for a while I was worried that I would not have much this summer, but as you can see it is growing like a weed now that the water is warm and the sun is bright. I have to be carefull not to throw it out when I net out the sludge in the spring, as it is down laying in the sludge and can be accidentaly thrown out if not careful. I also had to thin it out recently as it was so thick that the surface water was getting smothered in the bottom pond and I could see it was way too thick for my liking. I still like to have good water movement and the hornwort can grow so thick that the surface water stops flowing nice, so I have to keep thining it out all the time now.

That floating sliver ball in the last pond picture spins non stop under the flowing water and helps to keep the surface water moving too.

 

[CountryEscape]

Keith, right now I don't have plans to head to WI, going to MN Labor Day weekend, but not through Chicago, and by that time it will be the end of the season for those plants pretty much. Next year, early summer, when you start posting you have too many, I'll make a trip to WI, just to stop and see your pond, meet you and your wife, sit and have a chat by your pond, and bring home some extra plants! That's doable! I usually go to WI for State Fair, but that's kinda late, too, although perfect for your "too many" stage of the plants.
Yes, I've been having problems in my goldfish pond since I got back from UT the first weekend in August. Lost another fish yesterday, but none before that for a week that I'm aware of. Others seem to be perfect. Have NO idea what happened while I was gone, came home to 5 dead fish, 3 of which were the biggest ones, about 7" long. Been doing large water changes (25%) so far 3 of them, 3 days apart so as not to fluctuate the water temp too much at once. That seems to be helping more than anything.

 

[CometKeith]

Colleen, Those are really cool pics. The fish look almost fake. I think you have probably found the perfect combination of plants that works in your climate. Your hornwort looks different than the kind I had. Do you weigh yours down so it grows vertically up? The stuff I bought before had a lead weight wrapped around the bottom. I wasn't sure if that was the greatest thing to put in a pond but it didn't seem to hurt my fish. I have all this anacharis floating on the surface. I tried putting it in planters but it grows too big and bushy and always comes out! yes I would love to see a bunch of ponds in person like yours and Larkin's and sheetmetalman's. This list can go on and on and on! and oh of course Addy's!
CE, That's terrible about your fish and hopefully the rest will be okay. I have a bunch of questions. First I'm sure you must have a waterfall. Do your fish like to hang out by it a lot? Also how much of the water on the surface is actually moving ie swirling or rippling. Half or less? Also what would you say is the total square inch size of the surface of your pond and how many inches of fish do you have and what is the average size of the fish? What is the total plant coverage of the pond? Also re water changes, are you testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates? What are the readings and also have there been any big swings in ph? Also do you treat your water for 24 hours before you add it to the pond? Sorry for so many questions but I have some ideas about what the problem may be.

 

[CountryEscape]

Lots of questions, but good ones, Keith. Here are the answers:
The stream flows into the pond, but only from about 8" above the water, not much of a splash. The fish usually only hang out around it when I am pulling things in the stream, messing up the water, they swim over to see if any goodies come down. Otherwise, they don't hang out there. How much water is moving? Not much. I have the skimmer in the middle of a curved inside edge of the pond. Stream is on one end (fed by the skimmer) and bog outlet is on the other end.
My pond is 17' x 7' ... so that would be 119 sq ft, not positive on the square inches, multiply that by 12? It is covered by lilies on about half of the surface area. I have about 20 fish now, had about 30. Largest are 6-7", most are in the 4-5" range, maybe 1/4 of them 3-4" range. I have a few trapdoor snails that have been in there since the beginning last year. Bullfrogs and painted turtles visit from my farm pond. Lots of frogs on both ponds right now.
Yes, I checked all the water readings, even got new test kit to be sure, as my other kit was 2 years old, and ammonia and nitrites were zero (still are) and nitrates were between zero and .5 ppm. Ph remains between 8 and 8.4. I posted all of this on another thread, and any other ideas, and others were as baffled as I was. When this first happened, I turned on my huge air pump, and had it going 24/7. Then someone said if I didn't have any O2 problems last year with the extreme heat from June through Aug., that was likely not the problem. It had not been hot at all when the problem started. I don't treat my water, it's well water and doesn't need to be treated, which is good, because I've done 3 very large water changes, at least 25% volume, and no problems in fact the fish have gotten more active.
Most of the fish have been fine, showing absolutely no signs of stress. Just a very few looked sickly, and I put them in a quarantine tank (55 gal aquarium) with medicine called "General Cure" that was supposed to treat about 5 different types of illnesses.
So, now that you know the "whole story", what is your guess? I figure you're going to say I need more oxygen, but that was already talked about, and I've been pushing air for 2 weeks now, off and on, not on 24/7 like in the beginning. BUT, I am going to set up a fountain in that pond, so there is more splash and water movement, like I have in the koi pond.
BTW, koi pond has had no problems, and 3 koi in goldfish pond are fine and dandy, but then so are the other goldfish that didn't get sick. So, what gets to just some of the goldfish in a pond, and not all of them? That's what happened, and that's what is baffling me the most!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Yes, if the fish were not very active then it may have been low oxygen levels in the pond. I like to keep my big fish in the top pond with extra pumps, so the whole water surface is moving and rippling, it keeps the fish much more active and lively looking. This time of the year when the water is very warm, the big fish should be splashing up a storm and moving very quickly as their metabolism is very active and sped up full speed right now.

Thanks for the lovely complements Keith, I just love those two big old koi, had them almost since day one, they are my pride and joy, if anything every happened to them I would be very very sad, so I keep a very close eye on them all the time.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Oh yes, the hornwort for sale in the stores comes with a led weight to hold it down, but mine grows best just floating near the surface of the pond, tumbling with the strong water current in the top pond. the bottom pond it just floats on the sunny side around the halogen globe light. The hornwort looks much different when growing under artificial lighting, like in the stores, or when grown inside in my fish tanks, as it only grows very thick and lush under the real hot natural sun. It can grow fairly well in the fish tanks under LED lights, but the hornwort strands tend to grow long and skinny under artificial lighting, giving the plant a different look. It you buy the hornwort again take a piece of the strand and keep it in a jar of water in the window so if the fish eat it all in the spring, you will still have some growing in a jar in the window all winter long. In the spring I always throw the excess hornwort from the fish tanks inside the house, cause the fish really go nuts for it in the early spring. During the hot summer, it should grow much faster then what the fish can eat.

 

[CometKeith]

Colleen, yes I agree about rippling and swirling water. I think it is best to keep water moving. Also I'm not sure if having a deep pond is always the best answer because it is going to be harder to oxygenate all the water. Deep ponds are good for other reasons, but I'm starting to think the best ponds are deep in the middle and shallow all around. Thanks Colleen, those are great ideas about hornwort. Now I am feeling bad about not having it this year. Last year they were like having a bubble machine in my pond. There were constantly hundreds of tiny bubbles coming up to the surface from it.


CE, Sorry i haven't read your thread the last few weeks and missed the discussion. Your pond is over 17,000 sq inches ie 204 x 84. It can obviously support a lot of fish. It is interesting that on other threads that I have read recently it was the goldfish dying and not their koi just like yours. I thought all your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading would be good so I don't think the water changes are necessary. Yes, I'm thinking it is a dissolved oxygen issue and that for some reason your goldfish gills aren't able to pull enough oxygen out of the water. I don't know why goldfish would be more sensitive to this than koi but it seems like they are. I am going to assume the fish were found dead in the early morning when oxygen levels are at the lowest. Is this true? I have read that pumping air or using waterfalls is not as important as actually keeping the water moving and I agree with Colleen's comments above. When water is moving there is the best rate of gas exchange and water is better oxygenated. it seems to me that your water is too stagnant. I don't think pushing air is as helpful as keeping the water moving. Also I'm not sure if the big water changes are really helping because you are replacing oxygenated water with non-oxygenated water or maybe it is helping because you are forcing the water to move around but obviously there are easier ways to make the water move without taking some out and putting in new water. This is just my two cents as i don't claim to be an expert Hope your fish are doing better soon! :blueflower:

 

[CountryEscape]

Oh, now there is something I didn't think about. I thought bubbles meant good air, but maybe the water moving is better, like you and Colleen are saying. I have water jets that I could run, but they are not that strong, great for the kiddie pool, but not that great for the pond, I wouldn't think. Need to get stronger ones. the air bubbler is a huge one, really moves the water around, turbulents going on in that pond right now! The whole pond surface is moving around, so maybe in a round about way that is helping, too.
Thanks for the pointers, folks. BTW, another dead fish tonight, and seems I'm finding them in the evening, not the morning. However, the guy that I talked to that has prawn ponds said that fish die and go to the bottom usually, then surface when they bloat and fill up with air, so maybe their are dying in the a.m., floating by p.m. Have found a few of the dead ones in the past on the bottom, too. The saga continues ...