My goldfish pond

[CountryEscape]

When I was cleaning out my dog kennel/pond shed yesterday, I found I had some oyster shells. Where exactly do you put your shells, those of you who use them? I think Addy puts them in her bog, maybe just scatters them on top of the water? I know others put them in knee-high hose in streams and waterfalls.
Keith, I agree about the algae. It seems to come in spring, before the pond has cycled, has to hurry up and grow, and does it well! Then, once things start going, it disappears. It's really hard for me to tell my sister anything, as she "knows it all". In time her string algae will be gone, but for now it's running rampant, and she's panicked. I suspect by the time I go there in 3 weeks, it will all be gone, and she will think she cured it. LOL Oh well, for someone who has had fish or koi for the past 10 years, she sure needs to learn a LOT! I'm so thankful for this site, or I would still be scratching my head on a lot of issues. Still am on some, but mostly learning and reading and waiting it out when that is what is necessary.
As to my fish deaths last year, I had some koi that were smaller than some of the very large goldfish that died. In talking with a koi guy on this forum, he lead me down the path that there is a chemical that koi can be treated with, but will kill goldfish. In the ingredients to the fungicide they sprayed with a plane right before my fish deaths, I found an ingredient that had a similar name. I'm not a chemist, and have no desire to try to figure this out for sure, but it was enough for me to assume that some part of that chemical is similar to what the guy told me would kill goldies and not harm koi. In the end, it's an easy solution - cover my ponds for a day or two when they plan to spray the fields each year.

 

[CometKeith]

JW/Addy, I'm so glad we don't have hurons here. CE, yep it sounds like you have it figured out. It's interesting something would harm goldfish and not koi. Here are some pics I took tonight.

CE, You need to give us a shout next time you are on your way to WI and you can meet my wife and have a refreshment next to our pond! The pond is finally looking halfway decent.All the different kinds of algae that were in the pond are gone and the floating plants are multiplying. I'm sure it's related somehow. The water is crystal clear and the fish and frogs seem happy!

 

[addy1]

Looking good Keith!

 

[CountryEscape]

I'm actually coming to WI in 2 weeks from this weekend, but will have my brother LOL and would NEVER come to visit someone with my brother. He wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much as me, and would make it dreadful for all of us. I am going up there again the first weekend of August, too, so will try to remember to give you a shout that time. I would love to see your pond and meet you and your wife. Thanks!

 

[CometKeith]

Thanks Addy, A lot of the pond plants are coming back in every year now. This year I am going to try to not let the floaters take over, but they do keep the water really clear. The fish are spawning like crazy but I doubt I'll see any baby fish. Too many mouths to feed. Both of the green frogs are croaking like crazy but have nothing to do with each other. I'm figuring they are both males. Unfortunately there probably aren't any female green frogs in Northern Illinois so if I don't do something about it they are going to be really lonely! CE sounds great. We are probably going to be around most of the summer. Next weekend we are going to Cincinnati to see our daughter who is working as a summer intern at P&G.

 

[CometKeith]

I took this tonight right after I fed my fish.

They were still looking for more food!

 

[j.w]

Yes pretty little ones and they are always hungry the pigs

 

[CometKeith]

Yes, You can't really see any black ones in the picture but I have 8 of them. One of them has a gold belly otherwise they all pretty much look the same. I saw yesterday my 3 small white ones chasing each other around. I haven't really thought about it but do fish recognize color in other fish and do they have preferences? ie orange like red, white like black, spotted like other spotted etc? It seems like when they are spawning every able bodied male goes after the female that's being chased!

 

[addy1]

open opportunity chasing...............

 

[CountryEscape]

I wonder how that works, too, Keith. And, I always wondered how koi breeders knew which fish were the parents of their babies, although I guess the serious ones separated the fish they wanted to breed. On my 4 babies from 2 years ago, I saw the female spawning, so pretty sure which one is the mom, then it's a guess as to which one(s) is/are the dad(s). One looks orange like the mom, but black spotted like a red/black spotted koi. The other 3 are replicas to a orange head and black matsuba butterfly fin male. One of the 3 matching babies is butterfly, the other 2 are regular fin. It's also fun to try to figure out who is the parent of baby goldfish! Wonder if any of us will have babies this year. Wait, Addy already has babies in her ponds. I've not seen any yet, need to go see if any lily pads or blooms need to be groomed, that's when I tend to see babies, reaching over the edge of the ponds and moving the pads around.

 

[j.w]

I wonder also can fish see color?

 

[CometKeith]

CE, That is interesting. Now I wish I concentrated more on my genetics coursework when I was in college! Maybe I would understand things more. I have three adult shubunkins so it is not that hard to see where some of the babies came from. My oldest fish is a red spotted male serossa with a long tail that I bought from Petsmart 5 or 6 years ago. At the time I also bought a really pretty orange spotted female with a long tail. Unfortunately a year or so later disease wiped out most of the fish except for two babies and the red male. One of the babies changed colors a bunch of times and is now an all white male. The other one is an orange female with a white nose that gets chased a lot. Now I have several really pretty orange spotted fish in the pond that are about two years old. I was so sad when I lost the orange spotted one but I think now I am blessed with her grandchildren!
JW That's a really good question. I don't think they have good eyesight at all because when I feed them they keep trying to eat something from a tree that fell in instead of the food! Eat it...spit it out..eat it again... and on and on!

 

[j.w]

If you are really interested this guy says they can see color.

Can Fish See Color?
by Mark Fisher
Like most vertebrates, the eye of a fish has a cornea (outer covering), an iris (aperture for light passage), a lens (to focus the image), a retina (receives the image from the lens), and an optic nerve (transmits the image to the brain). One difference between a fish eye and most other vertebrates is a fish can change the focus of the lens by changing the distance between the lens and the retina; other vertebrates (including humans) focus by altering the shape of the lens. Fish can focus their eye just like a camera. Also, the iris of most fish lacks muscles and is fixed in shape—they cannot control the amount of light entering the eye by contracting or dilating the iris. Sharks and rays do have movable irises and are the exception.
The retina contains special receptor cells called rods and cones. Rods are more light-sensitive than cones, but only respond to black and white. Cones respond to color and produce more detailed images than rods, but are only about one-thirtieth as sensitive to light as rods. Rods “see” light, while cones provide color and detail. Like us, fish cannot see color at night, or other low-light conditions.
A fish’s eye is adapted to better see movement and contrast at the expense of detail. The cones in a human eye are densely packed around the retina, allowing for better detail. The cones in a fish’s eye are distributed throughout, which provides better detection of movement and contrast, but with lesser detail.
In daylight, the rods contract and the cones expand. Pigment granules move toward and around the rods to shield them from light. At night, the pigment is drawn back to expose the rods, and they expand to become exposed to more light. This process takes about an hour, and most predatory fish are able to adapt faster than their prey. This is probably the reason many predatory fish feed most actively at sunrise and sunset—their eyes can adapt to changing light faster than their prey, giving them a distinct visual advantage.

Color vision requires different types of cone cells to detect each of the three primary colors, and most fish possess at least two while some have all three. In general, fish can see farther into the violet range than humans, and some can see into the ultraviolet range.
Researchers at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science have used electroretinography to better understand how fishes see color. This method exposes a range of colors to an anesthetized fish, and uses electrodes to measure which colors elicits a response in the retina. The article can be found here. This figure (from http://www.vims.edu/newsmedia/press_release/fish_vision.htm) shows the color range for each species, with the thicker black bar depicting the peak response. Except for striped bass, none of these species can see red, while weakfish can see far into the ultraviolet range. Spotted sea trout and red drum can see a range from violet to orange, with a peak in the blue-green range.
Color vision is used by fishes to help them see prey against a variety of backgrounds. Duplicating the exact color of a prey item is less important than choosing a color that ensures good contrast between your fly and the background. For example, chartreuse is a color that does not occur in nature, yet can be an effective color choice for a fly because it is so visible. Not only is chartreuse well within the visual range of a fishes eye, it is also fluorescent when exposed to ultraviolet light, and many fish can see into the ultraviolet range. Red and white is another effective color combination, but many fish (including reds and trout) cannot see red; instead, red appears as a shade of gray. Red and white is effective because it has good contrast against a variety of backgrounds. Gray and white would be just as effective.
The amount of light available and the color of the background is dependent upon a number of factors, including time of day, water clarity, bottom type, water depth, and vegetation. A fly with high contrast would be more visible under low light (sunrise/sunset) or turbid water conditions. Black is a good color choice at night because it provides the best silhouette against a moonlit sky. Fluorescent colors are highly visible on cloudy days, when ultraviolet light is more prevalent than clear days. A fly with high contrast is less important in clear water and on bright sunny days, and may even “spook” some fish.
Finally, in addition to vision, fish also depend on hearing and smell to help them find prey. A large fly that “pushes” a lot of water can be detected, even if they can’t see it. Poppers and gurglers are examples of flies designed to make noise. Also, some fly anglers targeting black drum have used “spray-on” fish attractants with great success.
In summary:
• Fish can see color, but they use color vision to help them find prey against different backgrounds, not necessarily to identify prey. Fish cannot see color at night.
• A fish’s eye is adapted to see movement and contrast at the expense of detail. An exact replica of a prey item is not necessary, but movement and general shape is.
• Many predatory fish are well adapted to find prey at sunrise and sunset.
• In general, the brighter the day and the clearer the water, the lighter your fly should be. Consider the background when choosing a fly.
http://www.rockportflyfishers.com/articles/can_fish_see_color.pdf

 

[CountryEscape]

Cool article, JW.
Keith, for a while I thought Shamu was blind, cause he would suck at empty water, since he knew the food was near. I felt like I had to toss it into his mouth. LOL But, then I watched him closer, and if I made him find it, he could. Just was being lazy. The other fish go after the food, swoop up to get a piece, then swoop down. Others stay on the top and gobble. But one of my favorites I bought 1.5 years ago seems to swoop up and miss more often that he scores. Again, if there is only one piece, and the frenzy is past, he gets it every time. He tends to otherwise go after the same piece someone closer is, and they get it before he gets there. LOL Funny watching their antics.

 

[CometKeith]

JW,That was interesting. The other day a plane flew over us and blocked the sun for a second and all the fish in my pond jumped thinking a predator was near. So that makes sense about contrast and identifying predators. During the day all my fish come running to me for food but once it gets dark they totally ignore me and can't see me at all. I like watching my frogs a lot. One was facing away from a water beatle that had landed in the pond and was swimming towards him. Just at the right time the frog turned around and surprised the bug and got him so obviously the frog was relying on a lot of other senses besides vision. CE, That's funny how all your fish are different. My small ones race after one small bit and the big ones just act like a vacuum cleaner sucking in everything in sight as they go. By the way what do you feed your goldfish?