Modern styled koi pond and pondless waterfall plans

[CometKeith]

Welcome Scott. Very cool plans and I like the modern design. For one thing you definitely need to stay with goldfish otherwise keeping the pond will be a very unpleaseant experience. Cutting the concrete should be pretty easy if you have the right saw or you can hire someone for that. The proper saw can be expensive so if you are doing it yourself you can rent one and be sure to use something to protect your eyes. If you are hiring someone try looking up concrete barbers or something like that. For filtration you can definitely do it with a bog. Maybe consider a raised box between the house and the pond and raise up your address a little. The box can waterfall into the pond if built correctly and you can fill it with floating plants such as water hydrangeas or water lettuce that will float at the top. If you don't put in too many fish (start with 3 or 4) it will work fine and if you are happy with it you can try adding more later. I guess my one question would be about errosion under your sidewalk that might have dirt fall toward your pond. You may need to put a concrete footing under your walk next to the pond to keep the soil intact. Good luck!

 

[Usman]

very neat plan , the patio side seems complicated , what is ur plan ? what i can think is that uil need to 1st level the edges then built small wall under it from 1 or 2 bricks just under the patio edge and leave 2 inch gap between patio and that lower wall , then after placing liner place the liner edge in that gap sandwiching it then sealing that gap with cement or anything

theoretically you will not need bottomdrain with goldfishes and with this depth but if u can then its always better to keep floor clean . You wil need good mechanical filter / pressure filter to keep it super clean as u will be able to see its floor and even little debris will b visible , pressure filter will be easy for u to hide .

 

[Usman]

@Waterbug

 

[vestaviascott]

It's nice the way you've planned it all out! But I don't think you will be able to keep koi -- goldfish would be OK, though. And for it only being 16-18" deep, be sure to have some shade -- plants such as a water lily would work -- water that shallow will probably heat up quickly in the summer.

Thanks for the helpful advice. I will not be raising koi in this pond. It will be goldfish only (perhaps a few frogs if they can work here, but I'm fine with just goldfish). My kids are excited about that.

The maximum water depth for a front yard pond in our area is 24 inches, so that's what it's going to be. As deep as code allows.

I am definitely concerned with heat gain in a shallow pond - Bama summers get real hot - but I'm going to try to use lillies to help shade the pond and we'll see how it goes. It will get appx 4 hours of full sun daily. As its oriented east to west across its long side and the house is oriented to the North (sun rises behind the house so the pond is shaded until midday). There are some large trees across the street and our house sits very low from the street level, so the sun dips below those trees around 4pm.

 

[Mmathis]

With that much shade and the addition of a plant or 2, you'll probably be OK as far as the temperature goes. It's the ponds in full sun that can suffer.

 

[vestaviascott]

I like the clean, mod look to your plans. It does match your house nicely! Have you considered pumps and filters -- that is, how to conceal them?

I'm definitely considering it and will have a solid plan before proceeding with block construction. The top cap blocks will extend out over the liner by appx 4 inches. I'm hoping this will help to provide some cover for mechanics. I know I will need a min 600 gph pump and some form of filtration that I haven't yet decided on. It will depend on what's best for this design. I like the idea of a natural bog filtration or gravel based filtration but I'm open to whatever works best for this pond.

 

[vestaviascott]

Welcome Scott. Very cool plans and I like the modern design. For one thing you definitely need to stay with goldfish otherwise keeping the pond will be a very unpleaseant experience.

Yes, definitely going to stick with goldfish and thankful to have the option to have any fish at all in this pond. Having live fish is most of the appeal here, aside from the obvious benefits of having water in the landscape design.

Cutting the concrete should be pretty easy if you have the right saw or you can hire someone for that. The proper saw can be expensive so if you are doing it yourself you can rent one and be sure to use something to protect your eyes.

As luck would have it, a neighbor has dropped off his 14 inch gas saw (Stihl TS 420) and it cuts through the concrete like butter knife - very impressive piece of machinery. When he demo'd it to me he nearly finished the job it was so powerful. Although he didn't use water so silica clouds were all over the place. He's a retired pool guy and has worked with this stuff all his life so he says "if it ain't killed me yet...". I'll be hooking up the hose and wearing dust mast for sure.

For filtration you can definitely do it with a bog. Maybe consider a raised box between the house and the pond and raise up your address a little. The box can waterfall into the pond if built correctly and you can fill it with floating plants such as water hydrangeas or water lettuce that will float at the top. If you don't put in too many fish (start with 3 or 4) it will work fine and if you are happy with it you can try adding more later.

That's very helpful. If you have a URL or external resource you can point me to, that would be very welcome. I like your idea of floating bog plants. All the bog examples I've seen have had taller plants, but if you can do it with floaters, that works well with this design aesthetic.

I guess my one question would be about erosion under your sidewalk that might have dirt fall toward your pond. You may need to put a concrete footing under your walk next to the pond to keep the soil intact. Good luck!

Yes, I will be pouring a 12 inch footer in a rectangle at the bottom of the pond in order to provide a base for the first course of blocks. The rest of the blocks will be dry stacked over that with mortor poured into the voids from above.

Under the sidewalk edge, I will be using block as well and the blocks will go all the way up to the bottom of the patio base with the liner being secured between the top of the block and the bottom of the patio - I will probably use a long strip of wedge shaped rubber in order to secure the liner between the patio slab and the top row of concrete so there is less chance of damage to the liner when it gets stretched full of water.

 

[vestaviascott]

very neat plan , the patio side seems complicated , what is ur plan ?

I'll basically be constructing a block wall below the patio ledge. The idea is to hide the liner as much as possible from the elements and from view. I want it to appear that the pond water goes below the patio. The liner will be secured between the bottom of the patio and on top of the last course of block on that wall. I welcome your suggestions as to how to secure the liner there, its going to take a bit of engineering. My thought was to get a long and thick piece of rubber (weather stripping) that's cut into a wedge shape along its length. I would use that to go between the bottom of the patio and the liner in order to hold the liner in place and also protect it from the rough underside of the patio concrete (which will be gas sawed as flush and clean as possible).

theoretically you will not need bottomdrain with goldfishes and with this depth but if u can then its always better to keep floor clean

Now is the best time to install one, but I'm not certain if its going to be worth the effort. If I have a pump, can't I just unhook the hose from the system, connect it to a water hose and drain the pond that way? If I only have to drain it once or twice a year, I could live with that vs having a potential leak source at the bottom.

You wil need good mechanical filter / pressure filter to keep it super clean as u will be able to see its floor and even little debris will b visible , pressure filter will be easy for u to hide .

Thanks, welcome your suggestions on that. Appx 600 gallons of water, 24 inches deep with lilies and goldfish.

 

[Usman]

Now is the best time to install one, but I'm not certain if its going to be worth the effort. If I have a pump, can't I just unhook the hose from the system, connect it to a water hose and drain the pond that way? If I only have to drain it once or twice a year, I could live with that vs having a potential leak source at the bottom.
.

thnx for reply
bottom drain is to catch the heavier debris at the bottom and it continuously inhales it into a settlement chamber then collects it out of pond . its not used just to drain pond if i get u right? but many ppl have ponds without it so i dont think its a must and its mostly recommended with heavy fish load or koi .

yes i thought similar as u have planed , looks good , i was thinking if ur upper level of water will b below patio then u wudnt need any special sealing there as u can restrict the water level below the liner edge? u will use rubber just to hold it there ,

 

[vestaviascott]

After visiting the local pond shop yesterday and showing the pond pro there my design he came up with some options I haven't considered. Sime simple and some more complex than I'd planned for.

First the simple:

He thinks there is no need to line the pond with block. Since I have fairly hard red clay soil he says just make the walls as smooth as possible, place a layer of sand at the bottom and install the geofabric and liner like that. So that definitely cuts the time and expense of pouring a concrete footer and laying block. He did indicate that cap block (or similar) would be needed to secure the pond liner around the top. With using standard bricks to secure it under the patio edge.

But now the complicated part that I'm still trying to wrap my brain around a bit:

Where I have the blue Mexican beach stones in my drawing, I was considering that a separate system from the main pond. I was just planning on that being a pondless waterfall design. The water would never flow into the main pond.

But his idea is to use a single liner for the whole thing and make it all one system. Extend the liner under the rocks to tre edges of the design. secured at the house wall with a steel bar and using the height of the cap blocks at ground level to terminate the liner on the right side and front side.

This design would be relying on the rocks to provide the filtration. I suppose a layer of gravel under the larger beach stones would help. I want the gravel to host most of the filtered stuff and the blue beach stones to stay blue and beachy.

So, there would be a pump at the front bottom of the pond that would carry water up to the fountain rill channel. The water would fall into the rocks at both ends of the rock bed. It would then flow into the pond over the edges at back and right side.

Here's a sketch to help fill in the blanks:

Any feedback on the viability of this filtration system? It seems counterintuitive for unfiltered water first flowing up to the fountain rather than into the gravel then to the fountain and on to the pond.

But I suppose since its one continuous system it's all filtered water in the end.

 

[sissy]

shade plants in bog would work great .there are lots of flowering ones and hostas would do good

 

[vestaviascott]

Some additional detail of the proposed grave/rock filter basin. In this design, I've added some cutout areas in the support cap block to help channel the basin water into the pond (previous design assumed seepage of water over the edge under the rock supports). This design still assumes that but further directs water to create more flow and prevent stagnant water areas in filter basin.

 

[Usman]

Some additional detail of the proposed grave/rock filter basin. In this design, I've added some cutout areas in the support cap block to help channel the basin water into the pond (previous design assumed seepage of water over the edge under the rock supports). This design still assumes that but further directs water to create more flow and prevent stagnant water areas in filter basin.

its better yes

 

[vestaviascott]

shade plants in bog would work great .there are lots of flowering ones and hostas would do good

I like hostas but not crazy about the stem shoots that go vertical. You think they will grow in the filter basin? Its filled with gravel and rocks and only about 4 inches deep. Do you know of any other options for low height plants that will grow there?

 

[vestaviascott]

its better yes

Thanks. Any thoughts on the effectiveness of this filtration design? The aqautic garden shop owner says he'd also use a UV filter in this setup but in my research that just masks potential problems I'd like to avoid having in the first place.