Making a bigger pond - which size?

[Meyer Jordan]

yes i stated this fact about ratio of depth length ... but back to the point in which context i said eventual gas exchange will b same in both cases with equal square ft surface area, just the distribution pattern will vary , this added volume of water will b plus point while fish can swim freely and water quality will remain more stable while the aeration pr waterfall will compensate the depth oxygen depletion , infact u can easily cheaply increase aeration and water flow in any pond later on but its some times impossible to add volume when u have restricted space , this is best option if u have restricted space , other one i gave is stream type some times ppl dont have wide area but they have long narrow space , this shape will have more surface area then rounded or square ponds even .

This is all true, but another negative factor in having excess depth in small surface area ponds is that to achieve this depth often requires the pond walls being vertical. The greater the depth the less sunlight will be realized in the deepest areas in the morning and afternoon. While some restriction in sunlight is good in Southern climates this limiting of available sunlight will greatly restrict periphyton growth which, not only will limit the natural food supply and ammonia assimilation, but also limit the amount of Oxygen that is created through photosynthesis. This becomes a more troublesome factor the farther north that one goes in Laititude.
Of course, suich a pond can (and I am sure is) be constructed, but it should be realized beforehand that this pond will never naturally achieve anything close to a biochemical balance. The more that one moves below this 20:1 ratio the greater the imbalance.
In addition, the claim that fish may swim more freely only applies if the fish change their natural swimming patterns to more vertical. Horizontal is the natural swimming pattern for most pond fish.

Bottom line is that nothing is really gained by making a pond too deep for the surface area to support. Even though it seems that the opposite would be true, that is not the case.

 

[EricV]

ok right now I have about a 150 gallon pond. I am wanting to upgrade. and have at least a 1100 gallon pond if I could for koi. I'm wondering what size in feet I will have to make it. I'm going to shoot for at least 3.5 feet deep but trying to get for I don't have a huge area to make one so want the best bang for my buck.. please help..

You should take all these gallon calculations with a huge grain of salt unless you are building a pond with sharp corners (or perfect circle) and straight sides. I worked out that I thought I was building a 3300 gallon pond (using what I thought was some reasonable average depth to account for the shelves). I built the footprint a bit bigger than I was expecting and ended up more like 2500 gallons.

The only way to know for sure is to meter it when you are done.

 

[Usman]

This is all true, but another negative factor in having excess depth in small surface area ponds is that to achieve this depth often requires the pond walls being vertical. The greater the depth the less sunlight will be realized in the deepest areas in the morning and afternoon. While some restriction in sunlight is good in Southern climates this limiting of available sunlight will greatly restrict periphyton growth which, not only will limit the natural food supply and ammonia assimilation, but also limit the amount of Oxygen that is created through photosynthesis. This becomes a more troublesome factor the farther north that one goes in Laititude.
Of course, suich a pond can (and I am sure is) be constructed, but it should be realized beforehand that this pond will never naturally achieve anything close to a biochemical balance. The more that one moves below this 20:1 ratio the greater the imbalance.
In addition, the claim that fish may swim more freely only applies if the fish change their natural swimming patterns to more vertical. Horizontal is the natural swimming pattern for most pond fish.

Bottom line is that nothing is really gained by making a pond too deep for the surface area to support. Even though it seems that the opposite would be true, that is not the case.

This is all true, but another negative factor in having excess depth in small surface area ponds is that to achieve this depth often requires the pond walls being vertical. The greater the depth the less sunlight will be realized in the deepest areas in the morning and afternoon. While some restriction in sunlight is good in Southern climates this limiting of available sunlight will greatly restrict periphyton growth which, not only will limit the natural food supply and ammonia assimilation, but also limit the amount of Oxygen that is created through photosynthesis. This becomes a more troublesome factor the farther north that one goes in Laititude.
Of course, suich a pond can (and I am sure is) be constructed, but it should be realized beforehand that this pond will never naturally achieve anything close to a biochemical balance. The more that one moves below this 20:1 ratio the greater the imbalance.
In addition, the claim that fish may swim more freely only applies if the fish change their natural swimming patterns to more vertical. Horizontal is the natural swimming pattern for most pond fish.

Bottom line is that nothing is really gained by making a pond too deep for the surface area to support. Even though it seems that the opposite would be true, that is not the case.

nice to do brain storming with u
Koi and Goldfish will swim vertically too unlike fishes like catfish ie totally bottom feeder or guppy totally surface dweller , gf and koi tend to move in all levels in artificial ponds , the dedicated koi ponds are made deeper for same reason that the muscles which are used to go up and down gives them real exercise lateral movement is half of it but its easier for them to swim lateral then vertical , if u observe these fishes they keep on going on surface then returning to bottom thats what i call swimming other factor i mentioned is its easier to maintain water quality stability in larger volume , in smaller volume water readings will fluctuate alot quickly just after feeding or at nite , same way temp effects more on smaller shallow volume then larger volume . i think there are cons and pros to it but nothing severe

yes walls need to b slanted preferably but that is not necessary , depends how u design and hows soil there , he can use conrete ring or walls even its small pond will not cost much or bricks even if just a good shelf will keep it stable ,remember alot of water pressure from inside , best is to still create shelf either its shallow or deep that will give it stability .u must have seen 4/5ft steep ponds too .

none of our ponds are naturally balanced , thats why all ponds need bio media as surface area, flow, filtration, food, aeration to create balance i dont know what u mean by that .

i had once this type of small deep pond so speaking from experience i had no issue

 

[Meyer Jordan]

nice to do brain storming with u

I am repeating scientific fact, not brain-storming.

Koi and Goldfish will swim vertically too unlike fishes like catfish ie totally bottom feeder or guppy totally surface dweller , gf and koi tend to move in all levels in artificial ponds , the dedicated koi ponds are made deeper for same reason that the muscles which are used to go up and down gives them real exercise lateral movement is half of it but its easier for them to swim lateral then vertical , if u observe these fishes they keep on going on surface then returning to bottom thats what i call swimming other factor i mentioned is its easier to maintain water quality stability in larger volume , in smaller volume water readings will fluctuate alot quickly just after feeding or at nite , same way temp effects more on smaller shallow volume then larger volume . i think there are cons and pros to it but nothing severe

Yes, but their preferred orientation is horizontal. Why force an unnatural behavior.

none of our ponds are naturally balanced , thats why all ponds need bio media as surface area, flow, filtration, food, aeration to create balance i dont know what u mean by that .

With a proper fish load, any pond can be balanced biochemically without any supplemental biofiltration. I have seen many, many Goldfish ponds that were perfectly balanced and had never had any supplemental biofiltration. Many only had a fountain in the center.It can be done if one is willing to work with Nature.

In the opening post in this thread the OP plainly stated that they were looking for at least an 1100 gallon pond at least 3.5 feet deep. Using these measurements the pond will have a surface area of 42 sq. ft. or 6' x 7'. This means that this pond will be half as deep as it is wide. For a decorative feature this is no problem, but in a pond that contains fish, issues are sure to arise unless continuous aeration is provided and a low fish load is maintained.

i had once this type of small deep pond so speaking from experience i had no issue

What were the dimensions of this pond?

 

[sissy]

I have taken out ponds that I was amazed at as some where crystal clear with some over grown plants that were growing and fish were healthy and then I have taken apart ponds during the non growing season with died back plants that smelled like a sewer and fish were still healthy and then some with unhealthy fish .Most had been abandoned for years during the for sale and then the foreclosure time of the house .Some where preformed and some where liners of different kinds and even just plastic that should have leaked but held up for some reason .The you never know .

 

[budgenator]

We can talk all of the text book answers we want, but we all know fish can't read. I would think that with a 1,000 - 1,500 gallon goal, I'd compromise by less depth. If you had good biological filtration and it was well planted, 2 koi would be cozy but possible.