Lily Pads getting brownish/black spots that progress

[MoonShadows]

View attachment 103142

Looks very similar.
Cutworm damage. Nocturnal. Several species of moth.

Will look tonight!

 

[DutchMuch]

When you flip them over, wipe your finger from under them, then look at your finger, anything moving? specifically a white small clear almost, worm?

 

[MoonShadows]

When you flip them over, wipe your finger from under them, then look at your finger, anything moving? specifically a white small clear almost, worm?

Did that this afternoon, but didn't see anything. Will try tonight.

 

[MoonShadows]

Went out at 9pm, 11:30 pm and 3:30 am to inspect lily. No visible bugs, moths, caterpillars...wiped bottom of a few leaves...nothing.

 

[DutchMuch]

hm... ill look deeper into it for you moon, if it isn't figured out by someone else tonight, ill reply with a almost sure answer.

 

[moby]

Water lily leaf spot? No, I'm not joking either, as it seems to be a disease that has similar effects to what your leaves are experiencing...according to what I've read anyway.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Went out at 9pm, 11:30 pm and 3:30 am to inspect lily. No visible bugs, moths, caterpillars...wiped bottom of a few leaves...nothing.

How much new damage was there?

 

[Mmathis]

Some type of insect damage (caterpillars?). If so, beyond manual removal there is not much that can be done as any insecticide would be toxic to your fish.

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@Meyer Jordan, you forgot about Bt! The damage that @MoonShadows has doesn't look like the damage caused by the China Mark caterpillar, but Bt [Bacillus thuringuiensis] might work. It isn't an insecticide, but a natural bacteria. If I'm not mistaken, it might be an ingredient in Pond Dunks.


China Mark Moth

This small nondescript brown moth is the water lily’s major pest and is also called the Sandwich Man. It is nocturnal and lays eggs on the underside of floating leaves. After hatching, the larva cuts leaf pieces to make protective sandwiches. They affect water lilies, although the larva also burrows into any floating leaves or debris. They have a two week cycle, so keep a close check for them throughout the growing season.

The mechanical control method, better known as squishing, works well to control an initial outbreak – fish just love the worms. Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), a natural bacteria, can be used as a spray. Once ingested, it kills the larva but won’t hurt people, pets, or fish. It is the active ingredient in Dipel, Insecticidal Soaps, and Thuricide. As with many sprays, it is best applied at the end of the day (see sidebar). If there is a severe infestation, the best remedy is to remove all affected foliage close to the crown of the plant and destroy it.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You are right! I had forgotten about BT. It could work if one's timing is good (applying while damage is occurring).
There are many specie of moth other than the China Mark Moth that could have caused this damage.
The black spots and yellowing could be caused by several different vectors.
What is important here is that this plant has been severely weakened opening it up to myriad diseases and insect damage. If the source of this weakening is not identified and corrected, there is no way to save this plant.
Plants, incidentally, have immune systems. Though they do not perform the exact same way as animal immune systems they do, however, exist. When a fish's immune system is compromised and weakened, it is then subject to the assorted health issues often discussed on the Forum. The same applies to plants. When placed under sufficient stress, the plant's immune system is severely weakened and the ability to fend off disease or insect damage is lost.

 

[MoonShadows]

How much new damage was there?

None since yesterday. I had removed all the bad leaves yesterday afternoon.

 

[MoonShadows]

.

@Meyer Jordan, you forgot about Bt! The damage that @MoonShadows has doesn't look like the damage caused by the China Mark caterpillar, but Bt [Bacillus thuringuiensis] might work. It isn't an insecticide, but a natural bacteria. If I'm not mistaken, it might be an ingredient in Pond Dunks.


China Mark Moth

This small nondescript brown moth is the water lily’s major pest and is also called the Sandwich Man. It is nocturnal and lays eggs on the underside of floating leaves. After hatching, the larva cuts leaf pieces to make protective sandwiches. They affect water lilies, although the larva also burrows into any floating leaves or debris. They have a two week cycle, so keep a close check for them throughout the growing season.

The mechanical control method, better known as squishing, works well to control an initial outbreak – fish just love the worms. Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), a natural bacteria, can be used as a spray. Once ingested, it kills the larva but won’t hurt people, pets, or fish. It is the active ingredient in Dipel, Insecticidal Soaps, and Thuricide. As with many sprays, it is best applied at the end of the day (see sidebar). If there is a severe infestation, the best remedy is to remove all affected foliage close to the crown of the plant and destroy it.

Never saw anything that looks like that pic on the leaves either.

What I am describing almost starts off looking like a black mold or mildew spot...multiples, spots begin to connect and then the leaf weakens and it starts to shred or disintegrate.

 

[MoonShadows]

You are right! I had forgotten about BT. It could work if one's timing is good (applying while damage is occurring).
There are many specie of moth other than the China Mark Moth that could have caused this damage.
The black spots and yellowing could be caused by several different vectors.
What is important here is that this plant has been severely weakened opening it up to myriad diseases and insect damage. If the source of this weakening is not identified and corrected, there is no way to save this plant.
Plants, incidentally, have immune systems. Though they do not perform the exact same way as animal immune systems they do, however, exist. When a fish's immune system is compromised and weakened, it is then subject to the assorted health issues often discussed on the Forum. The same applies to plants. When placed under sufficient stress, the plant's immune system is severely weakened and the ability to fend off disease or insect damage is lost.

What an education I am getting. I never knew plants had an immune system.

Is BT an abbreviation for a chemical name or something? And, where can I get it? Might not be a bad idea to try it even though I have not witnessed any bugs at all. As I mentioned in my last post, on each leaf that it starts on, it almost starts off looking like a black mold or mildew spot...multiples, spots begin to connect and then the leaf weakens and it starts to shred or disintegrate.

 

[Mmathis]

What an education I am getting. I never knew plants had an immune system.

Is BT an abbreviation for a chemical name or something? And, where can I get it? Might not be a bad idea to try it even though I have not witnessed any bugs at all. As I mentioned in my last post, on each leaf that it starts on, it almost starts off looking like a black mold or mildew spot...multiples, spots begin to connect and then the leaf weakens and it starts to shred or disintegrate.

It was in my post, #23, above: Bt [Bacillus thuringuiensis]

 

[MoonShadows]

Thanks! Is this something I can buy at a nursery, big box store or pond store?

 

[MoonShadows]

OK...I may have spoken too soon. I went outside after posting a few comments in this thread this afternoon and noticed 1 (of my 8 remaining leaves) has a few yellowish/brown spots. Perhaps that the way the others started, and I wasn't paying close enough attention. I will document this leaf over the next few days so we can see if it progresses to brown/black spots.

Tomorrow, I am going to go to the nursery where I bought this lily and look in the pond from which I selected this lily to see if any of theirs are the same as mine.

On a positive note...I think...I am seeing a second flower bud starting to form under the water. I would imagine the plant can't be too stressed if it is producing another flower bud....or could I be wrong?