Koi color faded overnight - cause?

[fishin4cars]

Thermometer, walmart or Lowes in the swimming pool section. fairly cheap, easy to read, floats,works better than most pond ones! LOL, test kit, Petsmart, drop type, check GH and KH which does not come in the master kit. Multiple fish changeing colors abruptly??? Check your water for everything! If the water is still all checking good then keep an eye on them very closely. I'll be honest, one didn't alarm me to much, two doing the same thing at the same time greatly alarms me!

 

[addy1]

From the net:

Koi are very tough and resilient creatures, but their color and skin is very sensitive and easily damaged. Even high quality Koi can be irreparably damaged by sudden changes in water conditions and lesser quality Koi go bad in a hurry.
huge temperature change can cause the sudden fading

 

[digginponds]

I doubt it has to due with water temps.as mine has hit some very hot days,115 [heat index].I'm just North of you.............And all my fish with reds are real red..............
If they are eating and are acting normal,then they are not sick fish.

I'm no expert, but my koi dealer changes food and food ammount when he wants to bring "back" color.

Koi colors usually fade a little due to heavy feeding and increased nitrate and bacteria pressure. (the sumi is the first to fade) But quikely brougt back when they are transfered to a tank with lower feeding pressure.

It could also just be the genetics of the koi, but it sounds like its a general problem for you.

Also remember that the koi is usually sold when the dealer believes it stands at its best.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [eye candy]



Many possibilities, but if you are experiencing the same color loss pond wide I would look at environment as the key. Anything that adds stress will cause the skin to suffer and colors to fade. Stress may come from instability of water parameters, poor quality food, high nitrate levels, etc... I tend to start with water conditions (full spectrum of tests, including mineralization) and use that as a baseline to analyze potential problems.

Basic tests taken for ph, kh, gh, nitrate, both from the tap and the pond to start. Tests for ph, kh, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, taken morning/noon/night for a full week. Since it is a long term problem a long term approach in testing is necessary.


If all the above mentioned fails,I'll make the drive down!

 

[addy1]

nice of you to offer to help diggin!

 

[CountryEscape]

I have a KH kit, bought it for my inside aquariums because of my well water tended to have higher than normal KH. But, that was something early on that I had asked (another thread) or seen that KH was not something Koi had to worry about. I tested PH, Nitrite (it was high, between 2-5 ppm), Nitrate, and Ammonia. All were in the good zone except the Nitrite. I wonder if I'm feeding too much. :-( I don't throw handfuls of food in, but I do feed morning and evening, and I throw in maybe 12 pieces 4-5 times each time I feed. Is that excessive? I make sure that MOST of the food is eaten, and the rest tends to go to the skimmer. I'm sure some gets caught in the plants.

Also, not sure if they makes a difference, but my water hyacinths are STILL strugging! I have never been able to keep them growing well. The lilies are doing ok, but when I see other's ponds, I feel like mine look wimpy, although they are blooming. Other plants in the bog are thriving. I have algae on the liner, and during the heat of the day, it floats to the top, the spongy type, but in the morning it's all cleared up again. Not sure if it ends up in the skimmer, or more likely just sinks again.

I bought the koi food at PetSmart, and it was the more expensive type, although I can't tell you the brand, since my cat chewed a hole in it and I had to resort to a ziploc bag, locked behind the pantry door now. I do not want to feed junk food. I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for in animal food. So, that being said, not that I want to pay the highest price, but I want to get the best quality for the best price, is there a brand or type I should look for when I get more? I could use some more food, but may have enough until next spring, if you all think I should stop feeding altogether for a while. Also, I will be gone for 5 days, the neighbor girl is staying here to feed my animals, fish, etc., so I'm wondering if I should tell her not to feed the koi at all. I need to make that decision in the next 2 days.

And Diggin, that's awful nice of you to offer to come help. I'm still hopeful I'll get this figured out, but the fact that I'm leaving (heading north LOL) mid week, no need to test twice a day (I work, so testing at noon would not be practical) until I'm back, unless you think that I should test tomorrow and Wed. to get a base point.

Thanks everyone for the help. Hoping I get all this figured out before any fish die. I will be very sad if I come home to dead fish. VERY sad!! Wondering if I need to forego this short vacation to visit family ....

 

[CountryEscape]

Oh, one more thing. I have 2 wells that I fill the pond from, and as I mentioned earlier I goofed up and ran water from the house (with water softener) for about 30 minutes earlier this weekend by mistake. I usually only use the hose straight from either well. Then I added water for maybe an hour (only about 2" worth, though) from the other well after got the waterfall completed, as it took quite a bit of water to run that, and level was low. I somewhat overfilled it, not to the point of overflowing, but to the point I had to prop the skimmer so it could skim! Again, that was only 2-3" at best. And, again, my pond is 20x9'. But, I seem to recall that this post started before I added the water from the softened water and the added water this weekend, so maybe that has nothing to do with it.

 

[fishin4cars]

It's sure not going to hurt the fish to miss a few days of food and back your feeding down until the nitrites drop back down. 2-5ppm is pretty high.
As for Koi food, I don't use anything petsmart sells for primary food. I prefer Blackwatercreek and Hikari, but other good quality foods are Kodama,Tomigia,Ogata, and Dainichi. These are all high quality foods and not available in regular retail stores. you'll have to do some searching online at koi stores to really get the best quality foods on the market. But they are worth the effort.

 

[CountryEscape]

Thanks, Fishin. I copied and pasted your suggestions for brands, then will look at the ingredients and see what I can find on the 'net!

I think I will only feed in the morning and VERY limited the next couple of days, and then not have the neighbor feed while I'm gone. We all know they will have plenty of food to eat with the algae, but I sure don't want them to starve either. LOL OK, so they won't starve, but I sure enjoy feeding them, and although I don't feed much, I wonder if I have been feeding too much total, and just not realizing it. Live and learn!

 

[fishin4cars]

watch your ammonia and nitrites, as they go up feed less, find a balance that when you feed you can keep a 0 ammonia reading and very low-0 nitrite reading. This will give you a better idea of when your at least not over feeding. Right now I'm backed down to one feeding a day and it's light. Once the water cool down a little I'll start pumping them up for winter. the heat here right now is my biggest enemy, it doesn't take much ammonia or nitrite reading at all and I can start seeing the fish coming to the surface more. I'm looking for a O2 tester to see what my dissolved oxygen level is.as it drops and heat rises ammonia climbs much faster. Also the higher the PH the more it will effect how the ammonia stresses the fish. I went out and tested my small pond this past week and the GH and KH had dropped very low and the PH had started dropping. Upon further examination I found that my prefilter had clogged with algae, the filter wasn't performing as it should and the water wasn't passing through the oyster shells at a strong enough rate. It was enough to keep the bacteria alive so the Nitrites ammonia and Nitrate all were good but the PH was on the verge of crashing. Also the temp in that pond was at 93! So experience payed off this time, I tested and caught what was happening. This is why I recommend not only testing the water but knowing why and what exactly your looking for when testing.

 

[CountryEscape]

Good info again, Fishin and Diggin! . I have not tested the water as often as I should, I'm sure. I will test it again in the morning, and then again in the evening. And, get a floating thermometer at Wally World as well. The ammonia and PH are good, but the nitrites was the only thing high. I will check the KH tomorrow, too, as I have that test kit, and will get a GH kit next week, unless you think that may be something to be sure to check out now, I'll get it tomorrow. Just have lots of last minute things to do before being gone.
Here's another thing I have not thought about, but now that you brought up pre-filter getting clogged, Fishin .... I have a basket and filter on my skimmer, then the water is pumped into the plant bog. I check the basket everyday and clean it out, just got into the habit, and since the baby turtle showed up and kept ending up in there, and other critters, too, it got to be habit. I only take the filter out maybe once every 7-10 days. Should I maybe take it out more often? I rinse it out with water that I realize was softened water, so maybe be more careful to use straight well water, that is if the well water parameters check out well? I just remember that for my inside aquariums, neither of my wells nor my softened water were ideal for the aquariums. I did ask and double check, though, before I decided to build the pond, and was told that the water would be fine for goldfish and koi,and that was going by testing it ahead of time as well. They said the higher GH would be no problem for the goldies and koi, and seems other parameters were good.
The part that confuses me most is that besides adding the softened water by mistake, and 2 days later topping off my pond with well water, I don't know what I've done differently. Oh, wait, I forgot to say that I have never done a water change! I've not taken water out and added new water. Could that be a problem? This pond has only been full since end of May, and koi were added July 2. Also, I have only backflushed my DIY Skippy filter once . When I just moved it to the permanent spot as I completed the waterfall this past weekend, I shut off the pump and it back drained into the pond. I need to put in a valve so it doesn't do that, as probably some gunk went back into the pond But, again, the Sanke had faded out her red and then black prior to the weekend. Just trying to think of anything that could be causing this problem, although I honestly think the heat is playing havoc with both added stress (my pond is in full sun until about 6 p.m.)_and simply getting my pond fully cycled.

 

[fishin4cars]

the pond being as new as it is your going through some balancing. water change may help some but as new as it is I doubt that it's at a stage of actually needing one. I also doubt your top off with soften water did much harm but again, only one way to tell, test and know what it was nad what is is after. good idea to keep a journal at least while your learning the pond and how it reacts to changes, such as topping off, rain, water changes. What makes the ammonia or nitrite climb, how much food is triggering them? these kinds of things you'll want to know for future refrences. you are wanting to see readings for GH and KH up not low. as long as they are up, ph is more stable, softned water can and will drop your GH, so if there is one you need more than the other GH is the more needed one for you but again, waiting until you return home should not hurt.

 

[addy1]

My well water is way soft country, my gh and kh have been low slowly climbing with the oyster shells added, it has not seemed to bother the fish at all. My herd gets fed once a day, there is plenty of bugs etc for them to snack on when not fed. I watch them grazing the bottom and sides all of the time.

If you really want them fed , prefill a baggie with a little food one for each day. But you fish will be fine without food for a few days. It bothered me to leave my newly running pond with all the babies when we left this summer for over a week, but guess what it was fine when we got back.

Have your neighborhood gal just check the skimmer, when she comes over to make sure the turtle does not get stuck, or like I have done with my other pond, put a net over the opening until you get home.

When your plants get going you most likely will not have the issues with your water tests, I have yet to get a reading on nitrites, nitrates, ammonia all have been zero since the beginning of the summer, and my water is crystal clear........ love my bog! lol

 

[CountryEscape]

OK, I tested this morning. Nitrite is .50 this morning (was between 2-5); Nitrate is between 0 and 5 ppm; Ammonia remains at 0. KH is 8 drops (I can't remember the calculation used with that). PH is 8.4 now. I will test all again this evening, plus GH when I pick up a kit today at pet store.

 

[addy1]

It is getting there country, great job

 

[Oldhead]

Wow, neat idea and cheap, too!
BTW, I cleaned my skimmer filter, sprayed it off into buckets to use to water plants .... just noticed only one of the 5 buckets of water had a huge number of red squiggly things!!! What in the world are they? Mosquito larva? And, if so, why in just one bucket, although the bucket they were in was the first bucket I sprayed filter off into ... I sure hope it is nothing dangerous for the fish. I guess the fish would eat mosquito larva, but I thought they were brown, not red. Probably another type of bug but want to be sure.

I'm guessing they look like this?