Is it Okay to NOT have a Bottom Drain??

[C-Note]

I've had a bottom drain in my self-buit pool for thirty-odd years. Installed properly they don't leak. For someone to suggest they do, is nonesense. The bottom drain and the four inch pipe that connects to it should be encased in waterproofed concrete. What can leak, is that if it's a liner pool, then the seal between the liner and the flange of the drain can fail, if it's a cheap bottom drain. Some look very flimsy.

I consider a bottom drain in a Koi pool essential. They can produce a huge amount of waste during the warm weather. Without a bottom drain you're just going to build up problems for yourself.
There wouldn't be a market for "retro-fit bottom drains," if those people who failed to install a bottom drain in the first place don't start to regret not having one in the first place.

Koi keeping is for the long term. The memory of the cost and inconvenience of "getting it right in the first place" fades in a relatively short space of time.

Sorry it's not a good picture but it will stand enlarging.

Look how substantial was the kit for my pool, bottom drain and connectors for a pump sump. By contrast the normal terrain 4" pipe and bend look quite flimsy. The collar on the bottom drain that traps the liner is secured by sturdy nuts and bolts.

View attachment 115825

Totally agree! We've had several of our koi for about 6 years now. I've regretted NOT having a bottom drain in the past. But this contractor insists it is not necessary, which I found confusing. Thank you!

 

[C-Note]

Okay, it seems like I do need to go with a bottom drain, because I do not intend to have substrate or many plants. I'm certainly not going to have a bog set up. I guess we may have to go with the other contractor, but they were really sketchy with us on the initial quote (it seemed to rise as they changed their perception about what we might be able to afford, which is total crap!).

Thank you for all the input!

 

[bagsmom]

Are you familiar with Eric Triplett, The Pond Digger? He has tons of videos on You Tube and is sort of a pond builder's guru. I know in many of his videos, he says you can call his company and they will recommend contractors in different regions. It seems like the different contractors who attend his professional education seminars and such are pretty passionate about doing things right. Just in case you were interested -- that might be a resource.

 

[Doghouse Riley]

Okay, it seems like I do need to go with a bottom drain, because I do not intend to have substrate or many plants. I'm certainly not going to have a bog set up. I guess we may have to go with the other contractor, but they were really sketchy with us on the initial quote (it seemed to rise as they changed their perception about what we might be able to afford, which is total crap!).

Thank you for all the input!

For a kick off, plants and koi don't mix, they'll eat any the can get at down to the roots.

A koi pool unless you have a really sophisticated filter system needs to be at least 2000 galls, to have a chance of maintaining acceptable water parameters, without a lot of flctuctuations. Koi don't like changes of anything in their environment.

In any event it needs to be at least 4ft deep.

For all things koi check this message board out. Lot's of good advice available there.

http://www.koiforum.uk/index.php

 

[sissy]

I have large koi over 2 feet long and 2 filters 2 pumps and a laguna aerator with 12 air stones with a air stone in each filter .I use a pool net maybe once a month if I have time and I only feed my fish 2 or 3 times a week .The fish clean their home because of less feeding I have less work to do on the pond .I have 3 acres I take care of myself so no real time for the fish except to watch them while I have a cup of coffee .My visitors loved my pond and fish that fled the flooding in NC

 

[C-Note]

For a kick off, plants and koi don't mix, they'll eat any the can get at down to the roots.

A koi pool unless you have a really sophisticated filter system needs to be at least 2000 galls, to have a chance of maintaining acceptable water parameters, without a lot of flctuctuations. Koi don't like changes of anything in their environment.

In any event it needs to be at least 4ft deep.

For all things koi check this message board out. Lot's of good advice available there.

http://www.koiforum.uk/index.php

Thank you! This will be just over 4800 gallons, and 5' deep. I just have 1 lily that is huge enough and grows fast enough that the koi have not managed to kill it in the past several years.

 

[C-Note]

Are you familiar with Eric Triplett, The Pond Digger? He has tons of videos on You Tube and is sort of a pond builder's guru. I know in many of his videos, he says you can call his company and they will recommend contractors in different regions. It seems like the different contractors who attend his professional education seminars and such are pretty passionate about doing things right. Just in case you were interested -- that might be a resource.

Yes! Very familiar with Eric. I'll give his company a call.

 

[j.w]

@C-Note I don't know where you are moving to but if it's north of Seattle there is a pond place:https://www.yardwaterfeatures.com/ that says they do installations. I have bought things there but never had them do any installations. They are near Mt Vernon, Wa.just off the freeway.

 

[C-Note]

@C-Note I don't know where you are moving to but if it's north of Seattle there is a pond place:https://www.yardwaterfeatures.com/ that says they do installations. I have bought things there but never had them do any installations. They are near Mt Vernon, Wa.just off the freeway.

Thanks! We are heading pretty far south, closer to Olympia. But it's worth a try. Most places will charge us for hotel stays during construction based on the location anyway.

 

[Jhn]

For a kick off, plants and koi don't mix, they'll eat any the can get at down to the roots.

Blanket statements are rarely true.

I have had 2 hybrid ponds in the 2 houses I’ve lived in over the past roughly 25 years. The first pond I had for 15 years ( before moving) the koi in there would eat/destroy any plant that touched the water in their pond.

The current pond leans much more towards an eco pond, the koi in this pond for the most part leave the plants alone. They eat some of the submerged plants and the quick growing marginals( never enough to decimate the plant though),but ignore my lilies and lotus.

I personally, have never put bottom drains in my ponds, but I also have turtles in my ponds. So I don’t really want to take a chance of them getting stuck in a bottom drain.

I do agree, with a DKP I would definitely go with a bottom drain.

 

[Lisak1]

For a kick off, plants and koi don't mix, they'll eat any the can get at down to the roots.

A koi pool unless you have a really sophisticated filter system needs to be at least 2000 galls, to have a chance of maintaining acceptable water parameters, without a lot of flctuctuations. Koi don't like changes of anything in their environment.

In any event it needs to be at least 4ft deep.

For all things koi check this message board out. Lot's of good advice available there.

Sorry to have to disagree with you - as I already mentioned, we have a garden pond full of both plants AND koi. Our fish do not eat our plants, let alone "down to the roots". And while our pond is 3 feet deep, we've seen many, many ponds that are home to beautiful koi that are only 24" deep. Continuing to repeat old information that has been proven false through experience isn't helpful to anyone.

 

[GBBUDD]

Even a high water table or heavy rains can shift bottom drains

If you look at the most expensive and highly praised drains and best reviews on bottom drains the best all call for the drain be poured into a bed of concrete to insure it does not move when a swimmer steps on or kicks it. I have built my pond with the required code of two drains on the same line that can handle the full volume of the pump. It collects what the skimmer misses between the three collection points I find very little in the pond that's not at one drain or the other. The basket strainer collects the debris so as long as your diligent with the cleanings it's huge benefit in my book. If you want a air bladder in the drain the concrte holds the drain in place as well

 

[GBBUDD]

But this contractor insists it is not necessary

As a ex general contractor and one who just built his own pond that was hardly the average first time pond owner in size and complexity. I would not trust anyone who is afraid to cut, seam, or install a bottom drain or skimmer. There's really not much too it . Now speaking from a money point of view and the potential for a leak and what it could cost you if done wrong could drive a company to lean toward taking people out of them for the simple fact of the risk. but it matters not if it was my first pond here or a rubber roof if you have done one you have done them all.

there's a more in-depth write up in the pond construction and equipment forum under Going for it! phase one 12,000 gallon pond. the other item I would not do without is water jets or returns the surface of my pond has no dead spots and completely circulates and the skimmer catches most debris if not the circular motion has created vortex to the main drains 5 feet down

 

[WhiteNoise]

I have had three ponds (two active ones now) and I have never used a drain. Keeping the pond healthy and clean is key and can be easily done with a great filtration system. Been doing ponds and have owned Koi since 2012 with no issues and babies every spring.

My plan is to build an even larger 3rd pond further back on my property and I do not plan to set a drain there either.


@GBBUDD

That is awesome!

 

[C-Note]

Great news!! Found a local guy who is doing the build exactly as we want it, with bottom drains. He's been excellent to work with in the planning and communication, and he expertly transported our fish to the new house, and has them well-filtered in temporary housing. The build will start on Nov. 15th.