Introductory "behind the scenes" story on your Pond's ecosystem.

[crsublette]

I'm having a problem following your line of though. In simple, more direct, terms, could you spell out what your beefs is? Something about "what works for you", after that you lost me. Is the beef with Charles?, or with new ponders in general? I'm not quite getting it. I'd be happy to reply, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

It's all about Mario. I bet he doesn't even eat beef. I think his point is we all should do as he says. If not, then, in his fantasy world, we are just a bunch of fish eating heathens, just poking sticks at fish, that actually have no idea of what we are doing and all of our fish are just always "sick and dieing" for having too many fish and using all this technology such as UV lights, bio-filtration and mechanized filtrations, materials to maintain pH stability, etc etc and actually nobody knows what they're talking about except for Mario, who is the true "expert". Of course, he can explain absolutely nothing nor can make a cogent point and likely never will. Nobody knows what they're talking about except for Mario, the true "expert" here.

I'm getting the impression likely he is one of those Fish Rescue center folk and who likely advocates for the ASPCA to get involved in this hobby since "fish are people too".

 

[crsublette]

it is not about beef. its about the love for the hobby and the commitment i have for the fish. it is the work that is involved with ponds that people tend to shy away from after while. life happens for humans and the fish suffer for it. works for me.... its about the gravel, rocks, sand. Why would you overstock? is it because you love the culture and belief behind the ponds or just because you can shove as many fish in to one area? Charles has his points, and i will address him accordingly, when having a gravel underlayment, ie rocks, gravel, sand muck if you will will build up. im not saying you dont have to clean it, just in small amounts not the hole thing at one time. Do fish and turtles and snail disturb the underlayment? yes they do but in small amounts. small amounts of bacteria will be released in to the water column, and that is what the filter is for. Small amounts of everything is great. Large amounts are not so good just as everything in life. Changing large amounts of water 35% or more is dagerous, you can find that on the internet. Large amounts of fish require you to be the link completely in the nitrogen cycle. With large amounts of fish requires large amounts of additives, water changes, and time. What ive seen with this is the people tend to give up. It turns from a labor of love to work. what happens to the fish? ill take pictures of all the left over fish in my pond from others who gave up because it was to much for them to handle. this is what i mean on endless supply of fish. Treating every aspect of nature, I AM GOD ALMIGHTLY, is to much work. Living in wisconsin, i can have nature work with me, as for charles it works against him. Now for you, not addressing my name correctly is rude and i will treat you the same. You have no idea why i picked this name for myself and will never understand. For you to slander it and to repost on it just shows me complete loss of respect. no beef just fish.

Mario, you just completely ignore absolutely everything written.

Of course, whenever the fish stock density increases, then there is more input from humans in the pond process. This is quite obvious.

Look at the stock density in a Lake; it is absolutely no where near to 1 koi per 1,000 gallons, not even close, which is more likely 1 koi per 10,000 gallons that has a constant water change through streams/creeks topography and other stuff that can create stagnant zones which can impose quite deadly ailments to humans. You are correct, I do not want my pond to be like this.

The correct additives and technology only supplements Nature. Without these additives and technology, you would likely not have survived your military injuries.

If ponding becomes too much work for you, then quite likely the system that was created is not well built at all.

 

[crsublette]

Mario, if you want to continue on with this tango, then this is quite fine with me. Allows me to clarify many points and helps to spread the information I have posted.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Sure, no im not part of any green peace crap, do i eat meat? Yes. Do i eat fish? No, it taste like shit. If i was hungry enough, i would eat it from my pond, i know whats in there and it will not harm me in any way You can not do enough research on what effects,long term, are going to cause the fish right? These additives, non natural, are only proven for short term uses for now. Yes uv lights help and so do mechanical filtration work, i dont believe in the 3rd, chemical. I dont know why u must insist on ball shooting me to prove your points, but if you must go ahead and well all learn from it. I didnt realize until i read your profile what area you are fom in texas, but i understand your reasons for your beliefs. Its not possible for you to have a pond if you didnt do all the chemical warfare you need to do. So if you want to continue with your research, ill be your guniea pig, sorry fish.

 

[crsublette]

Aaahh... so you do at least use some technology...

Yet, you don't believe in the 3rd chemical, which I assume you are referring to are the various organic materials, such as crushed coral etc, to maintain pH stability... ???

Ok... Now folk can know where everyone stands now... For a guy like you that is unaware of maintaining pH stability and its affect on fish health, I really shouldn't have to say much more...

I insist on "ball shooting you" since advice from folk like you often lead to bad results for the fish since most owners will definitely want to enjoy many more fish in their ponds, as they do with their aqauriums. All ponds aren't the same and so the advice must be appropriately given to achieve the compromise between owner and fish.

I never recommend any chemical unless there are very good reasons for it and I often tell folk to stay away from those chemical and bacteria products sold by pond retailers.

Actually fella, since I'm on well water, my reliance on chemicals is zero beyond the simple oxidizer, which is also used as an antiseptic and likely a variant of it used on you in the military. I am also assuming you never go out too much due to all of the chemicals in the water you drink, unless you bring your own water everywhere you go.

What chemical additives are you talking about ??

If you're talking about ammonia lockers and dechlorinators and the supposed "evils" of them, then you'll have to fly alone on this one as well.

 

[crsublette]

Sure, no im not part of any green peace crap, do i eat meat? Yes. Do i eat fish? No, it taste like shit. If i was hungry enough, i would eat it from my pond, i know whats in there and it will not harm me in any way You can not do enough research on what effects,long term, are going to cause the fish right? These additives, non natural, are only proven for short term uses for now. Yes uv lights help and so do mechanical filtration work, i dont believe in the 3rd, chemical. I dont know why u must insist on ball shooting me to prove your points, but if you must go ahead and well all learn from it. I didnt realize until i read your profile what area you are fom in texas, but i understand your reasons for your beliefs. Its not possible for you to have a pond if you didnt do all the chemical warfare you need to do. So if you want to continue with your research, ill be your guniea pig, sorry fish.

Yeah, I think you'll have to fly alone on that one...

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

 

[MitchM]

Koi, bottom feeders by nature are great critters for keeping your rock bed clean. Research sand sifting gobies they do the same thing. They constantly are cleaning for you......

mariobrothersleeve, sand sifting gobies do not clean a sand bed, they eat the invertebrates living in the sandbed, which, in an aquarium setting will kill the sandbed and turn it into nothing more than a detritus trap. The gobies activities will temporarily suspend the detritus, but it will settle back down. Detritus that will have accumulated below the depth of the gobies activities will remain untouched because of the absence of beneficial critters to process it.

As for your inquiry to Charles as to what creatures live in saltwater sandbeds, please see this link: http://www.ronshimek.com/critters.html
For further information on saltwater deep sandbeds, please see this link: http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

mariobrothersleeve, sand sifting gobies do not clean a sand bed, they eat the invertebrates living in the sandbed, which, in an aquarium setting will kill the sandbed and turn it into nothing more than a detritus trap. The gobies activities will temporarily suspend the detritus, but it will settle back down. Detritus that will have accumulated below the depth of the gobies activities will remain untouched because of the absence of beneficial critters to process it.

As for your inquiry to Charles as to what creatures live in saltwater sandbeds, please see this link: http://www.ronshimek.com/critters.html
For further information on saltwater deep sandbeds, please see this link: http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Very good. Amazing.......

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Detrius, if in the water column would be taken out by the mechanical filter. Yes they do eat some amphipods but they do eat up some of the microalgae. Multiples is the key, like in ponds. Clean up crew are important. They, koi and sandsifters, stir the top of the bed and help keep the detrius in the water cloumn to be expelled from the ecosystem. And what they cant reach goes untouched, no adverse affects on ecosystem.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Do you want me to lead you like dumb ass too. Im glab believes in all 3 steps, that is why i do rock bottoms, as well as alot of folks

 

[crsublette]

Detrius, if in the water column would be taken out by the mechanical filter. Yes they do eat some amphipods but they do eat up some of the microalgae. Multiples is the key, like in ponds. Clean up crew are important. They, koi and sandsifters, stir the top of the bed and help keep the detrius in the water cloumn to be expelled from the ecosystem. And what they cant reach goes untouched, no adverse affects on ecosystem.

You don't want the detritus in the water column especially if you lack the proper filtraiton that captures these dissolve organic fines.

It doesn't go untouched... eventually, reptiles, frogs, turtles, and other animals will dig down further releasing the toxic stuff into the water and also, if you are ever in the pond to put more plants or trim plants, then this will also disturb the "untouched" area.

 

[MitchM]

Detrius, if in the water column would be taken out by the mechanical filter. Yes they do eat some amphipods but they do eat up some of the microalgae. Multiples is the key, like in ponds. Clean up crew are important. They, koi and sandsifters, stir the top of the bed and help keep the detrius in the water cloumn to be expelled from the ecosystem. And what they cant reach goes untouched, no adverse affects on ecosystem.

The buildup of unprocessed detritus will be a contributor to poor water quality, in both fresh and salt water systems.

Do you want me to lead you like dumb ass too. Im glab believes in all 3 steps, that is why i do rock bottoms, as well as alot of folks

I'm not sure who you're referring to as a dumb ass, but insults are not welcome here.
Good luck in the future.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Yes, in small amounts, will not effect anything, in large amounts yes. This is what the cuc's are for. I run sand and gravel in both. I will agree to disagree. If you want to stock pounds of fish to gallons of water, fine. Its completely safe. Nothing bad will happen

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

The buildup of unprocessed detritus will be a contributor to poor water quality, in both fresh and salt water systems.


I'm not sure who you're referring to as a dumb ass, but insults are not welcome here.
Good luck in the future.

Very one sided, go ahead and read back