I'm so upset! Two dead Koi! l

[brokensword]

Another thought as I'm re-reading your secondary post re wind; when January hit, did you get any thaw at all? I'm wondering if with all the snow drifts, you had the extended period of coverage that I note is lethal for ponds and easily triggers fish kills on natural ponds. Here in my portion of Michigan, once January got here, I had open water and the snow melted for a bit.

That is, has your pond been continuously covered with ice until this last break when you saw the dead fish? How long would you estimate you had the pond ice-bound (continuously)?

 

[brokensword]

I have done many many MANY years of my own personal research in "the field" so to speak, and I have not met anybody ever who has had their KOI or Goldfish outside and alive in very harsh conditions since 1991, so I am the TOP EXPERT here when it comes to keeping KOI outside and alive all winter in Canada !!!

Please do your own research and check out my threads..

too funny...gotta download all the scientific papers you've written with all your expertise...anecdotal evidence is proof of nothing, I'm afraid...

 

[callingcolleen1]

too funny...gotta download all the scientific papers you've written with all your expertise...anecdotal evidence is proof of nothing, I'm afraid...

My KOI are proof !!

 

[callingcolleen1]

I am very sorry to hear you lost your beautiful koi. I would like to offer my help and I have been wintering my KOI outside in Canada since 1991. I have lots of hands on experience and my advice to you is to always have a 1500 watt red "cattle trough heater" on hand just in case you get that harsh weather again. I would have a "winter pump and good filter" that can run all winter without plugging up. I use the EZ Bio filters and have several connected together to one pump. I have several of these pumps and filters {under water} that are running all winter as we speak. I have four connecting ponds and they all run together and I use one 1500 watt cattle trough heater to keep all ponds warm. This system works really good and I have done this since 1991 and very successfully...

appolizie for the long video, and to anybody I may have offended...

 

[callingcolleen1]

I never used to cover the ponds before, and here is a short video from my U tube channel. You can see the ponds appeared to be frozen solid, but the water was always still flowing from pond to pond, so the ponds can get good oxygen. You can go back several years on my U tube channel and see many years of my fish and ponds running there, as well I do have a winter channel that I have. https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/my-pond-runs-all-winter-zone-2-3.10570/
This is a good winter video and hope I have been of help.

 

[MitchM]

....

@MitchM ; do you have any further insight here?

I found some pictures of AngelaM's pond.
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/yay-i-can-see-i-can-see.22276/

Drifted snow can sometimes pack very hard, so could have sealed off the breather, ice could have formed in the upper tube in very cold, windy conditions (-30's to -40's windchill), but those conditions would need to be observed to be sure. With that cold of wind chill values, both a floating trough heater and aerator would have frozen over.
Was the breather checked on periodically to be sure it was working properly?
An O2 test as soon as there were dead fish noticed would have been nice to have.

AngelaM, do you have any pictures of your pond with snow cover?

 

[MitchM]

...
I did try to warn everybody about those pond breathers and did say many times that they may not work for extreme temps and large koi.....

What warning was that?
You don't even know how they work.
I'm all ears if anyone can explain how the pond breather is a bad design.

 

[sissy]

Just because it is new means nothing .Time will tell with them .I will rely on old times methods just like my lava rock in my filter and if your fish are not as big or not koi then the results you get may not be the same as the results we get with larger koi .I have seen how the work and it does not appeal to me .I don't trust something that has not been well tested and this was not well tested by what I have seen .To start with the tests could have been done on small fish and you have no idea how it was tested and where it was tested .My pond has never been overstocked .Also I agree with colleen .The safe method is always best

 

[MitchM]

Pond breathers have been around since 2005, 13 years.
They're not new.

 

[sissy]

They are new to me and show no test results before they marketed them .Plus they were not marketed then any where around here .I have yet to see any test results for them from people who used them over the years that have large fish and the comments seem to be bad from people that have larger koi fish .Not saying it does not work on some ponds or smaller fish that may not be koi .Just like chemicals sold for ponds ,what do you expect from all of us because there is no control over pond stuff .It is just a money business like everything

 

[MitchM]

What I would like to see is an examination of the facts, not a product being dismissed because of unsubstantiated "online reviews".
Maybe the pond breather was at fault, maybe the water conditions, maybe operator error.
It doesn't help anyone if we jump to conclusions.
More fish could die next winter if we assign blame to the wrong area and we don't understand what happened.

I have yet to hear how the pond breather or it's design was at fault.

.

 

[sissy]

But yet first blame goes on the pond owner and not the chemical or the appliance used .I found most of my info from consumer affairs here in the U.S..I looked at online reviews and most that it succeeded with it were goldfish and smaller fish and yet the ones I saw that both failed and worked were with larger koi fish .Some used aerators and some did not use them with the pond breather .So to me is the risk and price of these worth it maybe not .I side with Colleen ,you cannot say she has not made it work with her fish .You cannot also predict the weather winter or summer .Why have so many pond breathers been returned as defective also .I know a few on here have had problems with theirs

 

[texmaster]

 

[MitchM]

Colleen's pond setup works well because:
-The pond is in an area protected from high winds
-The pond is covered which increases humidity and eliminates heat loss from evaporation
-The pond is well filtered and has circulating water.

That's it. No magic or secrets and completely explainable from available heat loss calculators.

But yet first blame goes on the pond owner and not the chemical or the appliance used .I found most of my info from...Why have so many pond breathers been returned as defective also .I know a few on here have had problems with theirs

There is no blame assigned to anything or anyone until the facts are known.

I have no idea how many pond breathers have been returned as defective. Do you?

.

 

[brokensword]

Schrödinger's cat