I think my friend needs some advice and I don't know what to tell her (green water)

[Waterbug]

And yes I know there are a million posts about green water, and whatnot, I've read tons of them. But I don't know crap about all those filters and cause I don't have any of them in my pond.

I understand. Here's the bottom line...a person must understand something about filters in order to make a reasonable choice. Just like everything else in the world. How else can a choice be made? I like the sound of the name. "UV sounds complicated, I don't even know what UV stands for." "Barley sounds natural and I like natural."

Or is the choice made on cost. To fix the UV cost $100 while barley straw is only $15. No brainer, barley MUST be better.

Or pick the filter that has the most vowels in the name.

That's why these millions of green water threads are so silly for the posters. I like typing about ponds and daydreaming about ponds, so most of the time I like typing the same thing over and over. But I understand the poster has absolutely no desire to do the work needed to tell the crap from the good.

It works. Everyone gets what they want out of the process. It's entertainment. If people want actual information, real information, that already exists and can be found by anyone interested.

She went to a water garden store near here, and all they did was infuriate her by telling her nothing she could do would make it better besides buying their outrageously expensive stuff.

To recap:
A. She knows nothing about ponds, filters and such.
B. She doesn't want to know anything about ponds, filters and such.
C. She knows the person at the water garden store doesn't know what they're talking about.

I don't suppose you see the logic paradox there? That's the answer to the question...what can be done to fix this pond. Nothing. The issue with the pond is the owner. The owner believes she doesn't have to know anything about ponds but apparently thinks she can judge true from false by using her "gut". Ponds are fixed by using the brain, not the gut.

I could post the same stuff I've posted many, many times. Trickle Towers, UV, etc. To what end? This owner is going to hear what she wants to hear and do whatever it is she was going to do anyways. She couldn't be more clear.

Funny how my bog works just fine (I think anyway, lol)

Yes, exactly, LOL. Any filter works fine as long as your gut says it does. You're happy. You have a pond to be happy. So just enjoy your bog and let your friend enjoy her pond. She likes drama, watching her fish die. She's looking for sympathy, give her some. Win, win. I know this because if she actually did want to fix the pond she would do the learning and fix the pond. It's simple. You can't make people do stuff they don't want to do. She doesn't even want to test the water!!! Can she be any clearer? People who want sympathy can't come right out and say it. That would ruin the whole thing.

She took water with her to test and apparently the idiots there couldn't even figure out how to do that for her.

Given her experience she of course would know.

Amazing since they have 2 fully stocked ponds on grounds and a fish dr and all kinds of shit.

Yeah, why should she believe someone with 2 fully stocked ponds when she knows so much more about ponds.

Anyway, I told her to go get test strips from walmart.

Yeah, test strips are way better than those dump drop tests. When you said you "I've read tons of them" by tons, do you mean "none"? There's a lot of crap info out there, but it's pretty universal written that strips are crap, drops are better. So I don't think you've read very much at all. Sorry if that's harsh, but either you're trying to gaslighting me or yourself. Not sure which.

Now I already figured her UV wasn't big enough, since I've read you write that lots of times, Waterbug.

Nope. I've never once said anyone's UV was undersized. I've made around 15,000 posts over the years in different pond forums and you will not find a single post where I said someone's UV was undersized.

Maybe you are reading tons of stuff...but that does no good unless you're understanding what you're reading. Not meaning to be harsh, but you wanted to know how to fix this pond. Well, to me, the problem is somewhere in this area.

I think Mucky already said the UV is undersized. Has the size of the current UV been posted yet? I haven't seen it. But yet a bigger one needs to be purchased?

I also had suspected that the filtration wasn't enough either. Now she has a tight budget and running out to buy an expensive UV light that can sterilize 2000gph probably isn't gonna happen.

Yes, $20 for a new bulb is expensive. She already owns a $150-200 UV filter, but better to throw that out and save the $20. Yes, I'm pretty sure this pond has no hope.

I actually told her today that if she didn't want to break the bank to start off with building a skippy filter, and I'm gonna email her the link to do so in the morning.

Skippy is the most often recommended filter by people who say "I don't know crap about all those filters" and the most liked by people who never test water. Perfect.

She did a water change today.

Water changes by someone who doesn't think water needs to be tested. Perfect.

Jen, Thank you for posting for a 3rd party who isn't here. It's allowed me to say the obvious, what I would have liked to have said to many other posters but would have hurt their feelings. It's been cathartic.

I know none of it was anything you want to read and I assume will be dismissed. But what I wrote is what I believe to be the actual problem with the pond. Whether true or not, it's my belief. It's the same problem most ponds have.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I think Mucky already said the UV is undersized. Has the size of the current UV been posted yet?

I said "likely the problem is too much water flow for the UV wattage she has."
I'm assuming it was 9 or 11 watts since those are the most common wattages of the cheaper units, and the water flows Jen mentioned would exceed the max flow of those low wattages. One thing we know for sure, it is obviously not working.

You can easily have too much water flow, but you can't have too much wattage. Reduce the water flow of a specific UV unit, or increase the Wattage of a specific water flow, and a UV clarifier also becomes a UV sterilizer. Not a bad thing to have in over stocked pond or aquarium.

 

[Waterbug]

Sorry Mucky, I wasn't reading too close.

I'm kind of guessing the bulb has never been changed. But who knows?

 

[adavisus]

An air pump set on a timer to oxygenate the water in the wee small hours would cut down on the asphixiating fish at dawn. Regards, andy

 

[JenH]

Waterbug... It would take me forever to reply to everything you posted in that last long one. And its already taken me this long just cause its the first chance I've had to sit at my computer vs my phone (lol) Anyway. No my friend knows absolutely nothing about ponds and isn't much of an internet person, so she's a little limited in her pursuit of info, I doubt its because she doesn't want to do the work. As for testing, everywhere around here uses the strips to test water, and I've only seen the strips for sale in stores. Now she could buy the drops online, but unless she wants to pay a fortune in shipping she would have a lot of dead fish waiting on that. The watergarden store here may have 2 beautiful successful ponds and be great at those particular types, but that that's just it. They know nothing outside of Aquascape ponds. If you don't use that brand equipment, that brand bacteria, they are 100% clueless. So no, even I don't necessarily trust their opinion all the time. And I don't even believe them when they claim that Aquascape is the best either. For example, I'm using Microbe-Lift bacteria at the moment, well I did after my cleanout to give it all a boost. Tested my water, and found that I have .5ppm of ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite. Now I assume this to mean that I have some ammonia because my biofiltration hasn't fully matured yet this year. I know it isn't because I am overstocked, because I got rid of about 25 fish last month, and my tests were always 0 last summer with tons more fish. Anyway to my point. Because I too am new at this, and just wanted to be sure, I called the pond store to run my thoughts by them and they couldn't tell me a thing!! And they said well since you don't use aquascape we don't know. And when I told them what I do use, all she could say was yeah we don't like that kind cause it smells bad. Because I am so sure that how a product smells has a direct correlation to how it performs. Seriously. And these are the experts.

No she hadn't replaced the bulb on the UV, because this is all brand new equipment, they just started building last summer. Why would it burn out that quickly? She did make sure the bulb was clean though. She checked to make sure it is in fact on, so really that only leave the option that the wattage is too small for the flow. Now correct me if I am wrong here, but I would assume you can't just buy a higher wattage bulb to go in that she would need to buy a whole new unit, so no it isn't as simple as spending a few dollars on a bulb. Also strange thing that was happening was that the fish were gasping for air just a few hours after doing full water changes. Doesn't make sense to me how that could be from ammonia build up in the pond, so what is it? When she was finally able to test the water all the results were good.

An air pump set on a timer to oxygenate the water in the wee small hours would cut down on the asphixiating fish at dawn. Regards, andy

Does she need an air pump when she has a large waterfall? Isn't the waterfall suppose to be oxygenating the water?

 

[adavisus]

If the waterfall is run through the night that would oxygenate the water at the time the algae is soaking up the dissolved oxygen

Gasping for air indicates the oxygen levels were very low

 

[Dave 54]

The one thing everyone has missed and it may be just me here or the way the photo was taken but I'm sorry that a darn puddle its nowhere near what your friend is claiming not suprised its gone green everything is undersized for that amount of water thats shes claiming.
I cant see how she could get all those fish in there plus another thing where are the fish even with green water you'd see the fish around the edges of the pond .
Ask her to take a photo of the whole pond please unless thats it?


rgrds


Dave

 

[HTH]

An air pump set on a timer to oxygenate the water in the wee small hours would cut down on the asphixiating fish at dawn. Regards, andy

Why bother with a timer. Just let the puppy run.

 

[capewind]

The one thing everyone has missed and it may be just me here or the way the photo was taken but I'm sorry that a darn puddle its nowhere near what your friend is claiming not suprised its gone green everything is undersized for that amount of water thats shes claiming.
I cant see how she could get all those fish in there plus another thing where are the fish even with green water you'd see the fish around the edges of the pond .
Ask her to take a photo of the whole pond please unless thats it?


rgrds


Dave

Dave, I saw it too, and one of the reasons I have stayed out of this conversation. To me, that pond only looks 6' wide ... IF it is 8' round, and 3' deep everywhere, we're about 1100 gallons. IF 6' wide, and 2' deep everywhere, we're talking just over 400 gallons ... I was hoping there would be more pictures to show the rest of the pond, IF there is more to it.

Jen, I can appreciate you wanting to help your neighbor, but second hand info makes it difficult at best. Test strips are useless. If ordered before an emergency, the shipping on a decent test kit is usually under $10 if not even free .... On the subject of UVs ... bulbs dont last long (depending if they are on 24/7 or part time), and quality makes a difference. I dont expect everyone to spend the kind of money hubby insists on spending on UVs (he has tunnel vision for one brand only) and he has some good arguements for wanting what he does (I made the mistake of asking about one on sale locally LOL) ... watts to meet the expectations is important, but so is the flow. It really wouldnt matter if she had 100 watts if the water is passing through too fast. Without accurate info, all anyone can do is GUESS BLINDLY.

Can you get us the correct dimensions of the pond ... name/brand/size of whatever filter and pumps? Brand name of UV and how many watts? How is it plumbed? What size pump is feeding it? Is that foundation hooked up to anything, or it just for looks? Even if the pond center is full of idiots, can you bring a water sample in, and tell us the NUMBER RESULT of the tests?

 

[Dave 54]

Jen I'm not doubting what you say but again its secondhand information do you know if your friend has even recearched what she is doing .
It may very well be her estimates are well out a really good idea would be to introduce her to this forum so that we can get it first hand and try to point out to her where she is going wrong
Dependant on what U/V-C she has old school one year bulb or the new generation two year energy saving U/V-C's that are on the market now I have one on my own pond they like airpumps should be run 24/7 365 days a year .
As to her filter what type does she have on the pond ?

rgrds

Dave