How much is too much water change?

[Meyer Jordan]

Interesting Meyer what are your take on Dr Novaks anoxic filtration system ?
When running KKU we gave him his own forum on anoxic filtration which recieved over 43,860 visits we even had a member from Plymouth with his own anoxic setup .
One night his entire writings mysteriously vanished I know not how but Dr Novak was convinced they had been hacked , havent seen much of the chap since but I occaisonally email him from time to time , sadly having a mechanical system water changes are needed mostly from the vortex but I give the rest a good clean three times a year , mostly coming out of winter late spring then again in mid summer and then just before late fall/autumn. But the pond does boast plenty of wildlife mostly in the filtration but I always put that down as a good sign

Dave

Do people still talk about Dr, Novaks' system? Haven,t heard about that in years. What I found interesting about this system is that it does perform a useful function in a constructed aquatic system only not quite the function that Dr. Novaks extolled.
Included in my pond's features is an area off the main pond, half-circled in shape that measures about 8' x 8' x 1.5' deep. It is completely filled with ordinary garden soil and heavily planted. The deepest area is, of course, anaerobic. Similar to Dr. Novaks' pots but considerably larger. My purpose for creating this particular type of area in my pond was two-fold. First, to increase the fauna diversity by encourage the growth of a variety or organisms that only occur in saturated soil. Secondly, was to provide a natural mechanism for DENITRIFICATION. Recent research has shown that there is a side benefit that some of the anaerobic heterotrophs that denitrify are also capable, when no Nitrate is available, to oxidize both Ammonia and Nitrites.
Dr. Novaks was on the right track, but I feel that he stopped short of realizing the complete potential of his idea.

Please explain what you mean when you say that you have a "mechanical system".

 

[Priscilla]

Do people still talk about Dr, Novaks' system? Haven,t heard about that in years. What I found interesting about this system is that it does perform a useful function in a constructed aquatic system only not quite the function that Dr. Novaks extolled.
Included in my pond's features is an area off the main pond, half-circled in shape that measures about 8' x 8' x 1.5' deep. It is completely filled with ordinary garden soil and heavily planted. The deepest area is, of course, anaerobic. Similar to Dr. Novaks' pots but considerably larger. My purpose for creating this particular type of area in my pond was two-fold. First, to increase the fauna diversity by encourage the growth of a variety or organisms that only occur in saturated soil. Secondly, was to provide a natural mechanism for DENITRIFICATION. Recent research has shown that there is a side benefit that some of the anaerobic heterotrophs that denitrify are also capable, when no Nitrate is available, to oxidize both Ammonia and Nitrites.
Dr. Novaks was on the right track, but I feel that he stopped short of realizing the complete potential of his idea.

Please explain what you mean when you say that you have a "mechanical system".

Hi Meyer,

I am new to ponding and am a former banker and now current CEO of the household - no biology background at all. My pond is 10 months old.

I like your idea of having a portion of the pond filled with dirt. I know a lot of people on here have bogs filled with pea gravel. But filling a bog with pea gravel would cost me an arm and a leg (I live on a small island where everything is imported). Having an area filled with straight up dirt would be awesome! I could find local plants that don't like to be too deep and like soil. I have also recently found out that my favorite pond plant, water hyacinth, like to have their roots in dirt and do much better (for me) this way. And what a GREAT nursery for baby fish - kinda like the mangroves of ponding. LOL.

I have the following questions/comments:
1. Water flow - do you have water flowing through this area (like how people flow water through the bog back into the pond), seems like flowing water would cause a big mess. I like a clear pond, which is why I am struggling with my murky pond right now.

2. Do you just walk around in it in to maintain the plants? Do you ever maintain the plants? Seems like any movement around it would cause a big mess.

3. Do you keep fish? Do the fish swim in there and cause a mess?

4. Dr Novak's system is all over this site, at least once a month someone brings it up. People love it or hate it and mention of it always sparks some argument.

Thanks!
P

 

[Jeff Zimnisky]

Subscribed.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Hi Meyer,

I am new to ponding and am a former banker and now current CEO of the household - no biology background at all. My pond is 10 months old.

I like your idea of having a portion of the pond filled with dirt. I know a lot of people on here have bogs filled with pea gravel. But filling a bog with pea gravel would cost me an arm and a leg (I live on a small island where everything is imported). Having an area filled with straight up dirt would be awesome! I could find local plants that don't like to be too deep and like soil. I have also recently found out that my favorite pond plant, water hyacinth, like to have their roots in dirt and do much better (for me) this way. And what a GREAT nursery for baby fish - kinda like the mangroves of ponding. LOL.

I have the following questions/comments:
1. Water flow - do you have water flowing through this area (like how people flow water through the bog back into the pond), seems like flowing water would cause a big mess. I like a clear pond, which is why I am struggling with my murky pond right now.

2. Do you just walk around in it in to maintain the plants? Do you ever maintain the plants? Seems like any movement around it would cause a big mess.

3. Do you keep fish? Do the fish swim in there and cause a mess?

4. Dr Novak's system is all over this site, at least once a month someone brings it up. People love it or hate it and mention of it always sparks some argument.

Thanks!
P

Ah! The Cayman Islands. Tropical ambiance. The beautiful Caribbean. Home to untold secret bank accounts!!

In answer to your questions----

!. No water flow in this area. This serves an entirely different purpose than a 'bog'.

2.It can be and is walked on. It is basically no different physically than the shoreline of a typical earthen bottom pond. 90% of it is above water level.

3. See above answer.

 

[Dave 54]

Do people still talk about Dr, Novaks' system? Haven,t heard about that in years. What I found interesting about this system is that it does perform a useful function in a constructed aquatic system only not quite the function that Dr. Novaks extolled.
Included in my pond's features is an area off the main pond, half-circled in shape that measures about 8' x 8' x 1.5' deep. It is completely filled with ordinary garden soil and heavily planted. The deepest area is, of course, anaerobic. Similar to Dr. Novaks' pots but considerably larger. My purpose for creating this particular type of area in my pond was two-fold. First, to increase the fauna diversity by encourage the growth of a variety or organisms that only occur in saturated soil. Secondly, was to provide a natural mechanism for DENITRIFICATION. Recent research has shown that there is a side benefit that some of the anaerobic heterotrophs that denitrify are also capable, when no Nitrate is available, to oxidize both Ammonia and Nitrites.
Dr. Novaks was on the right track, but I feel that he stopped short of realizing the complete potential of his idea.

Please explain what you mean when you say that you have a "mechanical system".

I took quite a shine to him both of us being ex military but think he feels persicuted by as he puts it the filter companies who he seems to think are out to get him , I've stood up for him on many occasions hense the heated discussions Priscilla mentions , why I feel he's put himself into his system heart and sole and perhaps deserves a little more recognition than he gets from doubters
He does have a blog site somewhere but I've not visited it as of yet prefaring instead to just email him from time to time , he did at one time have a spot on this site but came back to KKU until Carl its owner could no longer affoard to run it which was a real shame because it was a good koi site.
I ran it as supermoderator for three years , it was a well run and well displined site then as I stated all his data suddenly disapeared and we are talking a whole forum of information .
Carl had given him his own special forum, because we both felt he should have a mouthpiece through KKU to get his message across which we felt was important and shoulld be heard.
Judging from the number of visits I think it was as previously stated over 43,8600
Plus the people asking questions about it then it was a successful forum within the KKU forum.
Manky Sanke aka Sid Mitchell a good friend who is one of the UK's top water experts does have a dedicated anoxic spot on his website that I know
Jay one of the Plymouth members of KKU acctually has a working anoxic filter at home which I hope to view one day soon ,interestingly hes also a member of this site but due to work commitments doesnt come on that oftem but if he does I think he may be interested in what your doing .
My filters are that of a former koi dealership QT holding pond as is the pond which was retrofitted to a home pond , I was under the impression that because of the fact it asnt a bog filter or anoxic one then its mechanical in that it removes particals of detritus with biological actions taking place therin or am I wrong on that issue if so Meyer please correct me on this, though we have over 27 years of working with koi due to ill health it was indoors you've already seen the tank and its only these last five years that weve made the move outside .

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

No, I have not shared any details on any of the ponds that I am responsible for. I do my best to avoid giving the impression of self-promotion. Suffice it to say that I am a strong advocate of following Nature's lead, which is more focused on function than form. Everything in Nature is dynamic, including Ponds which are extremely so. The idea of 'that perfect balance' is very unrealistic. The true secret to any pond is to encourage the development of a complete Food Chain.The greater and richer the diversity supported in this Food Chain, the healthier the pond. The healthier the pond, the less human intrusion in the name of maintenance is needed.

I think there would be more than a few people interested in what you have to say about this Meyer especially the ponders of this site, we seem to be of a differing breed of fish keeper than the ponder .
We British koi keepers are a bit of a heathen lot believing plants do not have a place in our formal koi ponds , nothing but koi seems to be the moto , I dont know if this is the same with the AKCA ?
But not one koi pond I've visited so far seems to have plants in evidence apart from the surrounds of the pond that is but non in them.

Dave

 

[Priscilla]

Ah! The Cayman Islands. Tropical ambiance. The beautiful Caribbean. Home to untold secret bank accounts!!

In answer to your questions----

!. No water flow in this area. This serves an entirely different purpose than a 'bog'.

2.It can be and is walked on. It is basically no different physically than the shoreline of a typical earthen bottom pond. 90% of it is above water level.

3. See above answer.

No more secret bank accounts here, that ended many years ago. We share information with most Govts now including the USA - but unfortunately Hollywood can't let it go.

 

[Priscilla]

I think there would be more than a few people interested in what you have to say about this Meyer especially the ponders of this site, we seem to be of a differing breed of fish keeper than the ponder .
We British koi keepers are a bit of a heathen lot believing plants do not have a place in our formal koi ponds , nothing but koi seems to be the moto , I dont know if this is the same with the AKCA ?
But not one koi pond I've visited so far seems to have plants in evidence apart from the surrounds of the pond that is but non in them.

Dave

Good point Dave. I think I have koi because of the colors, my pond is heading in the direction of a 'natural' eco system than a formal koi pond - although I do like those too!

As natural as a rubber liner, pumps, filters and UV can be! LOL!

 

[Dave 54]

Good point Dave. I think I have koi because of the colors, my pond is heading in the direction of a 'natural' eco system than a formal koi pond - although I do like those too!

As natural as a rubber liner, pumps, filters and UV can be! LOL!

We have a lovely covering of algae on the sides and bottom of the pond Priscilla when the current hits it and the sun is on it it undulates a bit like you see with Marine creatures its very short and never causes a problem , weve never had a problem with blanket weed so we are happy to have it in the pond,

Dave

 

[Priscilla]

Cleaned the bottom of the pond, not that much stuff at all. So its not that causing the water to be murky. I cleaned the filter which looked pretty dirty since I just cleaned it on Sunday. Did a full clean, let a bunch of water out and am refilling it now. I threw out my old quilt batting and put in new one to see if the fine stuff needed more filtering. In fact, I added some extra batting for extra filtering. I think its working. Pond is looking clear by the waterfall after it goes through the extra batting. Hoping in the next few hours it might be back to normal.

Fingers crossed! I miss seeing my fishes!

 

[koiguy1969]

if its not an emergency water change, keep them smaller, more frequent if possible. like regular maintainence water changes if you do for example 100 gallon water changes every 2 weeks, do a 50gal every week. less swing in temp, and total water chemistry. less stressful on pond inhabitants.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Cleaned the bottom of the pond, not that much stuff at all. So its not that causing the water to be murky

Is it possible that the planting media/dirt is being disturbed and causing a mess in your water? When I had clay pots with dirt in my pond (lilies were planted in them) if they got disturbed it would cause the water to be kind of a light brown in color until things settled down again.

 

[Priscilla]

Is it possible that the planting media/dirt is being disturbed and causing a mess in your water? When I had clay pots with dirt in my pond (lilies were planted in them) if they got disturbed it would cause the water to be kind of a light brown in color until things settled down again.

I don't think so. This all started after some huge rain storms. Until then everything was ticking along great.

Its looking better already! I can see my fishes! Except for all the lily leaves!!!! LOL! They must be loving all the shade, I wonder if its helping to keep the water cooler.

 

[Lisaebetten]

I think I remember having my pond turn murky after heavy storms one day last month now that I think about it. I googled it back then and there was info relating to a change in water color after storms. Scary it was only a month ago and I am just remembering pieces of it. Like on Thursday the water was clear and Friday it stormed and the water was dirty looking.

 

[Priscilla]

I think I remember having my pond turn murky after heavy storms one day last month now that I think about it. I googled it back then and there was info relating to a change in water color after storms. Scary it was only a month ago and I am just remembering pieces of it. Like on Thursday the water was clear and Friday it stormed and the water was dirty looking.

I just went out there with a light, there are so many particles floating. The extra batting I added in today is already dirty. I guess I will clean it tomorrow.

I'm loving the weather but hating my pond being murky.

I'm having glasses of wine to celebrate the 78degree weather! LOL!