High Nitrates after re-potting lilies

[crsublette]

My understanding is that noticeable fading fish color begins at 8.8pH occurs due to the encroachment of Alkalosis before Alkalosis becomes a permanent fish health problem. From what I know of at this moment, Alkalosis is permanent once obtained and not always fatal, depending on how high the pH reaches. As for all around efficient nitrification, I'll read one journal stating they found optimum pH was 7.7 and another would say it is 8.3pH. There's all sorts of other stuffs to be aware of as well, but I gotta leave so can't finish this. heh, grr I figure it depends on how you weight it all. If ya get vast amounts of rain or seriously overcrowded water, then hard water maybe worth it versus soft water potentially closer to a pH crash.

 

[Waterbug]

Hard water does seem to effect colors in koi, however...hardwater holds the PH far more stable and for most pond keepers that is more imprtant than holding a paticular color on a koi.

That is the debate some people are having. Whether colors are effected or not is also part of the debate. Many Koi keepers also say hard water (specifically iron) is good for black color. Kind of a difficult thing to measure. I don't have a horse in the race and am just saying there is a debate on the subject.

I would say between the 150 and 300 according to the color chart, it says 300 is very hard though so I figured I would ask. PH has been near perfect.

There are people, myself included, who would say a KH of150-300 ppm is perfect. There are those who say it's too high. I'm not aware of any danger to fish at really any level of hardness. I once saw a post from a Koi keeper and chemist using some pretty good data on fish deaths that KH would have to get to 10,000 ppm before being a problem. That was just theory. So to me 300 ppm is very hard water, but that doesn't mean bad, just on a scale it's high. Like if your IQ was 130 it would be very high, but not necessarily a bad thing.

Hard water also makes it easier for fish to balance fluid in their body. You can Google "osmoregulation" if you're interested.

However, you're using very general terms like "hard", "perfect", "high", etc. And when a number like 300 is posted I have to assume ppm. You know what assuming leads to. So if you'd like more accurate info please post what test you're using for "hard". Like GH, KH, Alkalinity, Total Alkalinity, etc. Or the test kit you're using. I'd also be interested in what pH level you consider "perfect" just to correlate with the hardness numbers.

 

[crsublette]

Hmmm, also fish's osmoregulation takes time to evolve; this reason why there are soft water fish and hard water fish. Heck, when I went to Death Valley, I was told of a very tiny fish that actually evolved to live in the extremely high salt water small spring pools in Death Valley.

I need to refresh myself on KH. How is it possible to have anywhere near that high ppm of KH without affecting other chemistry? That would be a very interesting discussion to read if ya have it on hand.

 

[Neo]

The color chart is a little hard to read exact. The brand is Smartpond from lowes.

PH is around 7.5 to 8.0 ppm now (says Ideal or close, it was lower earlier I think but the strip may have faded by the time I got inside and looked at it)
Alkalinity 180 ppm (says ideal)
Hardness between 150 and 300 ppm (says hard to very hard
Nitrate/No2 0 (says Ideal)
Nitrate/No3 seem to be between 40 and 80 ppm (around dangerous territory)

 

[Waterbug]

In a nut shell your numbers look good. Nitrate levels are generally not even measured by people. Between Koi and Goldfish being able to handle high nitrates and algae consumption it just isn't a big concern.

Not in a nut shell...
I went to the SmartPond web site and think I understand. I wish they'd come right out and say what compounds their strips test, but they don't. In their instructions they at least refer to hardness as Total Hardness which is a clue. They also say:

Total Hardness - Overall water hardness measures mineral levels in water. Ideally the level should be between 100 and 150; higher levels are not a cause for concern.

I agree.

Total Hardness is also called General Hardness or GH or Permanent Hardness. It isn't generally consumed by stuff in the pond.

Alkalinity is also called Carbonate Hardness or KH or Temporary Hardness. It is consumed in the pond. Bacteria use the chemical to convert ammonia and nitrite. So over time your Alkalinity level can fall. Falls far enough and pH can become unstable which is a problem. If your source water has Alkalinity and you don't have a large fish load you'll probably always have good Alkalinity.

Back to the original question...most people would consider nitrates between 40 and 80 ppm as fine. There's a problem in that people don't agree on what level is a problem for Koi and Goldfish. Some reputable people say above 100 ppm is too high, others say 200 ppm is too high. That tells me the 100 ppm might be over cautious. If 150 ppm was killing fish it would be obvious. There is an issue with nitrite converting bacteria slowing down when there are too much nitrates.

You might consider in the future getting a test kit that uses drops. More accurate. The strips are more for a quick general test to see if things are in the ballpark. If not in the ballpark the drops tests are used. The strips can go bad too so they aren't always trusted.

 

[Neo]

Thanks, I appreciate the help. I'll keep an eye on it and get the drops like recommended. No more top soil in the lilies.

It's funny I had a pond at my Mom's when I was 13 until I was 18 and never tested the water and had no clue what I was doing and never lost a single fish and I know it was over populated with koi.

 

[Neo]

The lilies needed cleaned up and re-potted anyways I guess because I woke up to a crystal clear pond this morning, after it has had that brown coffee/tea look all year. The fish seem back to normal also, back to their old selfs.