Here is my filter system design. Please share thoughts...

[randythawkins]

With the overflow being at the top of the vortex, this allows for a trickle water change system to be employed. If the vortex is being gravity fed then the water level in the vortex will be the same as the pond therefore it would not be able to overflow back to the pond, better to piped away to drainage.

Yea, that's what I was going for except for the trickle change part. It is mostly just a backup for when we get heavy rains or if I get distracted when adding water. As for adding water, I plan to place a rain barrel at the corner of the house. When I need to add water to the pond I simply lay out a few feet of hose into the side of the pond and open the valve on the barrel and let gravity do the rest. For those times when it is not raining often I can add water from the house supply into the barrel and let it sit/dechlorinate for a few days and then fill the pond.

 

[randythawkins]

Couple of more questions...
1. I am thinking that, because of the TPR lines into the pond, I should have a check valve to prevent water from flowing backwards....or do I need it? I have ball valves at the filter end of the return. Is that enough? I can close those if I need to shut down the system...??? Any experienced insight there?
2. It was suggested that I place the UV before the filter. It would have its own bypass also (so that I can control the flow of water through it). If I do this do I really need the bypass around the filter? (I guess the answer to that depends upon the filter I get and if I need to throttle back on the flow through it...?)

Thanks,
Randy

 

[randythawkins]

Couple of more questions...
1. I am thinking that, because of the TPR lines into the pond, I should have a check valve to prevent water from flowing backwards....or do I need it? I have ball valves at the filter end of the return. Is that enough? I can close those if I need to shut down the system...??? Any experienced insight there?
2. It was suggested that I place the UV before the filter. It would have its own bypass also (so that I can control the flow of water through it). If I do this do I really need the bypass around the filter? (I guess the answer to that depends upon the filter I get and if I need to throttle back on the flow through it...?)

Thanks,
Randy

Anyone have opinions to share on these?

 

[addy1]

No experience with tpr's but if you have the ball valves and can shut off the flow you should be fine.

I have read over and over that uv's need lower flow to work well, so usually plumbed on a bypass, but could be plumbed to go into the filter afters.

 

[taherrmann4]

The only problem you might have with just installing a ball valve is if you have a power outage then the water would flow back. Are you just concerned about the water in the pipe flowing back then I would not worry about it. I don't have either on mine and it has not been a problem.

Can't comment on the UV never had a need for one.

 

[Waterbug]

1. I am thinking that, because of the TPR lines into the pond, I should have a check valve to prevent water from flowing backwards....or do I need it? I have ball valves at the filter end of the return. Is that enough? I can close those if I need to shut down the system...??? Any experienced insight there?

You didn't say why you would need a valve. That drives whether they're needed, type and location.

2. It was suggested that I place the UV before the filter. It would have its own bypass also (so that I can control the flow of water through it). If I do this do I really need the bypass around the filter? (I guess the answer to that depends upon the filter I get and if I need to throttle back on the flow through it...?)

I can't think of a reason to have the UV before the filter.

For a bio filter some people say the UV kills the bacteria before it can get to the filter so the filter would be slow the cycle. But these people are just saying what sounds logical if you don't know anything about bacteria, which these people don't. So they would say UV after bio.

For a mechanical filter you would want the UV after the filter. Fewer particles in the water, less UV is blocked, better it works.

For bypass it can a little tricky to know where the ball valve goes, on the pipe going to the UV or on the bypass leg. If for example 100% of the water goes into the bypass with no valve there's no point having a valve leading to the UV. Normally there's a reasonably equal amount of water to both legs. If you're worried you can put a valve on both. One will be wasted, but at least you don't have a redo.

 

[randythawkins]

The only problem you might have with just installing a ball valve is if you have a power outage then the water would flow back. Are you just concerned about the water in the pipe flowing back then I would not worry about it. I don't have either on mine and it has not been a problem.

I didn't think I need one...I was mostly concerned about reasons I had not thought of and your idea of a power outage situation is one of those. hmmm. Considering that everything behind the pump is a closed system if the power does go out I shouldn't have any back flow and, if I do, it is only going to level out in the Settlement Chamber. So, unless I am missing something, I think I am good without one. Thanks.

 

[randythawkins]

You didn't say why you would need a valve. That drives whether they're needed, type and location.

Well, that's kinda of it...I don't know that I would need one.
Looking back at my original question I realize that I worded it backwards. I typed "...into the pond, I should have a check valve..." and I meant to type "...into the pond, should I have a check valve...". So, my bad there for misleading the question.

I can't think of a reason to have the UV before the filter.

For a bio filter some people say the UV kills the bacteria before it can get to the filter so the filter would be slow the cycle. But these people are just saying what sounds logical if you don't know anything about bacteria, which these people don't. So they would say UV after bio.

OK. Makes sense. I'll go with UV after the filter. I'll re-swizzle my drawing and post it for professional review, hopefully, this week.

Thanks everyone for your input. It is much appreciated.

 

[Waterbug]

Well, that's kinda of it...I don't know that I would need one.

I understand. It just seems like the idea to add a check valve came from some place. I personally wouldn't generally add a check valve to a pipe without some reason. I mean it isn't a standard practice to just add a check valve.

Not to diss your drawing, but schematic drawings are useful to the designer as a tool for reminding themselves where everything is and also as a guide for builders. But unfortunately when it gets down to the details only a 3D model is useful, or a really long and detailed description of every schematic element.

For example on a schematic a pipe is a straight line, but when installed might be sloped, have lots of fittings, and might require a check valve. Not saying you should create a 3D model, just saying I wouldn't get a false sense of security if people don't catch a problem from a schematic.

 

[randythawkins]

I understand. It just seems like the idea to add a check valve came from some place. I personally wouldn't generally add a check valve to a pipe without some reason. I mean it isn't a standard practice to just add a check valve.

The idea did come from somewhere but I don't recall where. I've read so many web sites, blogs, and forums that I would not even be able to begin to point to a source. I just recall some notes regarding the need for one (in their particular situation). I have thought through it with my system and could not see a need for a check valve but figured I'd ask those who have "been there, done that" and not just rely 100% on my no-experience assumptions.

Not to diss your drawing, but schematic drawings are useful to the designer as a tool for reminding themselves where everything is and also as a guide for builders. But unfortunately when it gets down to the details only a 3D model is useful, or a really long and detailed description of every schematic element.

For example on a schematic a pipe is a straight line, but when installed might be sloped, have lots of fittings, and might require a check valve. Not saying you should create a 3D model, just saying I wouldn't get a false sense of security if people don't catch a problem from a schematic.

Understood and that is quite possibly going to be my next step having gotten past this first-pass review - a google sketchup drawing. I've played with sketchup some before designing a jellyfish aquarium I am building (http://myfirstjellyfishaquarium.blogspot.com/ at the bottom of the page) and feel like attempting it with this plan...we'll see what happens.

 

[addy1]

I use a check valve in my stream piping. When the pump turns off it empties the 80 feet of pipe of all water. Lol water flows downhill............. the pump is a non priming pump, just a clear water pump that can handle our head pressure, so need to keep the lines primed.

There are some situations that one is needed.

 

[taherrmann4]

I just put a check valve on my bog pipe so that it would not empty my bog when the pump shut off. My bog is about 6' higher than my pond, sits on a hill and did not want all that water draining back into the pond. I do not have a check valve on the other lines as there was no need.

 

[Waterbug]

I understand on the check valve. I can't think of a reason for one. Normally a TPR is below the pump. Some people put check valves to keep water from turning the pump prop backwards when the pump is shut off and the out flow pipe are above the pump. They say turning the prop backwards reduces pump life, but I've never an explanation on how it reduces life that made any sense.

I'd be very interested to hear about your experience with Sketchup. I'm a software engineer and currently creating a 3D modelling app for furniture builders, but might want to make a version someday for pond design. Two of my fav hobbies.. Sketchup would be my main competition...and it's free. Tough market. Maybe you could start a new thread just on that?

 

[Waterbug]

I was reading a really long thread in another forum tonight and don't I see a check valve on a pipe going into a pond. It's an old thread so I couldn't really ask but there were some really great pond builders in on the thread and no one said anything about it. It was on a pump a pump intake pulling water for a waterfall which had a 70 gal reservoir. I guess he didn't want the water in the falls which was higher draining back thru the pump and into the pond when the pump was off. I didn't see any check valves on his TPRs however. So I still don't know anything, but was surprised to see it.

 

[randythawkins]

I'd be very interested to hear about your experience with Sketchup. I'm a software engineer and currently creating a 3D modelling app for furniture builders, but might want to make a version someday for pond design. Two of my fav hobbies.. Sketchup would be my main competition...and it's free. Tough market. Maybe you could start a new thread just on that?

As for Sketchup, I am very much a newbie at it. I knew what I wanted to draw, had an idea how to, and watched a few tutorial videos on specific things. It was not too difficult and I'll have to give a nod to google for making it easy. A little while back I started playing with a sketchup drawing of my plans and my first task was to create a terrain so I watched some videos on that but it quickly took a backseat to warmer weather and some patio pavers/flowerbeds I had to build so I have not even opened the file since March.

As for competing against sketchup I think you have one thing going for you - focused features. If your app can come with a significant library of furniture items (knobs, pulls, hindges, and various leg turnings) and have tools specific to the drawing of furniture (of which I have no clue what those would be...maybe a special preview filter that shows how the item would look with various wood materials and stain colors?) then you will have an advantage over sketchup. You would not have to charge a lot for your app. Look at what the app stores are doing now - $1 per app items!!!! That idea was laughed at not too long ago and now it is the way to do it. I believe Windows8 is supposed to have its own app store also so...