Help with initial pond - basic filter requirements

[koikeepr]

what a lovely pond area. A very nice start! That is a great price for the laguna! I would snap it up for that price if I were you! It's a steal! You will get many, many years of great service out it. The energy savings alone from that other pump you were talking about will help pay for it in two years. And I can't tell you how my poor laguna pump has been abused and the thing has kept on ticking. It has run dry so many times for so many hours (for a whole host of stupid reasons I won't go into), and I've just hosed it off and stuck it back in the water and thing just keeps going like a tank.

Your biggest dilemma is that barrels work best when gravity fed. And you have no real place for gravity. You have a similar situation to my pond in that it's hard to hide stuff. Mine is actually worse in that it's not even near the house the way yours is, but rather more in the open. So I had to dig my barrel under the ground in a filter pit so that I could get the gravity flow my external pump needs. If you get a submersible, gravity flow won't be such an issue.

Anyhoo, see the area in pink that i've drawn here. I can see a lattice fence or barrier of some kind on the side of your house that you can use to hide your barrel. Just enclose it in the lattice so that it's easy to access, but can't really be seen. Then run your hosing to your pump. You could also make a wall like you have with your stone there, but I think it will be easier to access on the side, as an idea. Here's a pic for you!

In terms of flushing your barrel, you simply drilll a hole and insert a 2" ball valve on lower few inches of the barrel. U then simply open it to get rid of all the muck. I recommend buying a cheap long hose so you can direct the muck to go to wherever you want--like a flower bed (it already looks like you have plants on the side of your house), which will enjoy the muck as food. Look up my post for how I did my barrel to see my drain...here's a quick shot of it. http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu310/lfreem2/CIMG2347.jpg You would not use the elbow pointing down tho since your filter is not under ground. Others have posted their fiters as well.

If you don't want to bother with a DIY barrel, as I said there are laguna pressure filters. For your size pond I would go with the 9000 gallon one...but it ain't cheap. Am not sure what they cost these days...might be the same price or more than that pump.

 

[sevensandeights]

Thanks for all the replies.

I did a quick ebay search and found the Laguna for $195 shipped so it is on the way.

The tenative plan is to put a 55 gallon DIY filter in the waterfall reservoir but will have to come up with a good way to attach a large weir to it. I don't plan to put much of anything in the pond this fall (especially fish). I have a bunch of other projects to before the snow starts flying (usually in mid November around here:frown. I will construct the filter over the winter and have it ready for spring.

One more quick question about the DIY filter. What's the consensus on where the water from the pump should enter the filter? Should it fill from the bottom or the top?

 

[koiguy1969]

definately from the top..if it comes in thru the bottom, and you lose power for any reason the filter will drain back into your pond and who knows how much of the gunk with it. unless you have a check valve inline......ponds comin along nicely
you want the water to come in thru the top get piped to the bottom and slow flow or perculate back up thru the media. the slow water upflow lets the waste products settle to the bottom and easily flush out!

 

[koikeepr]

Ah! What a great question! Up or down!

I would say with a non-gravity fed it might be better to do top fed. (I'm personally a fan of bottom fed, but I've got gravity working in my favor). But let's see what the others think! I smell a great discussion coming on!

 

[sevensandeights]

I'll be anxiously awaiting the impending discussion. My plumbing from the pump to the waterfall filter will most likely be flexible pipe for ease of taking in/out during winter shutdown so top, bottom or top to bottom fill will be easy to accomodate.

This may be blasphemous but . . . how much are you guys spending on your DIY filters (in terms of both time and money)? I know that 100 gallon Rubbermaid tank isn't cheap and there is a fair amount of plumbing fittings as well as the filter media.

The reason I'm asking is because I came across the Laguna Filter Falls (http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/filters/pfloskimfiltfal5000.php?link=151) product while searching for the above mentioned pressure filter. It serves as reservoir, can filter up to a 5,000 gallon pond and has built in weir. I can get it shipped to my door for $290. If I have to spend $150 on the DIY version, I would be miles ahead to just spend a little more on a drop in unit and save a bunch of time. I have logged a bunch of DIY miles already by digging the ponds, creating a retaining wall between the ponds and collecting 1,000+ rocks to landscape with!

 

[jpendl10]

how about not using any filter at all. who says you need one?

 

[DrDave]

how about not using any filter at all. who says you need one?

I can hardly wait to see these responses.

 

[jpendl10]

i know i am opening a can of worms. But we have been building water features for over 20 yrs and have never ever used a filtration system. in many of our systems we have different kinds of trout and koi. yes there are sometimes some deaths. but not any more than everyone else that has filtration systems.

 

[leeannecastro]

jpendl,
I have reviewed your site and you seem to have a lot of large, natural bottom "lakes" in your photos. I am no expert on those so I cannot comment on whether or not they need filtration. In this case we are talking about a smaller lined pond with lots of fish. It would be very irresponsible as a professional to advise someone not to use filtration. I tried my first pond without it and I ended up with horribly green water and lots of dead fish.
sevensandeights, I would certainly take the advice of the people here that have liner ponds. It seems like you are on the right track.
I spent less than $100 on my DIY biofilter. I prefer it because I can make changes much easier with a system I built myself.

 

[jpendl10]

Leeannacastro

I dont know what kind of system you tride to build the first time. but it sounds like your fish died from suffication not getting enuff oxygen because of an algea problems not becasue of filtration. All you would have needed was a good growth of benaficial bacteria and a fountain. But if you want alot of maintenance go with the filtration system

 

[newday3000]

jpendl your statement without any more information is misleading. You didn't say you can put as many fish in a pond as you want and still don't need a filter.

filter or no filter comes down to bio load. all surfaces in a pond grow bacteria. if the bio load (fish) is so low that the natural bacteria growth on the surface area of the pond can consume the ammonia then no filter is needed. This would likely mean 1 fish in 1000 Gallons. I believe it's entirely possible to have no filter but the bio load is likely 10x reduced. as ammonia builds up algae blooms (needs sun ligth so 100% shade could handle this problem), so if you don't mind algae then long term you don't need a filter.

since nearly 100% of those that keep fish ponds want more than 1 fish in 1000 gallons of water a filter is neccssarry to artificial create more surface area for bacteria.

The real question is how much ammonia can a pond with no filter consume. A pond is a closed system like an aquarium so ammonia will build up over time. The only way to dilute it is water changes or convert to Nitrate with a filter.

If anyone really wants to mathemathically calculate ammonia buildup with Koi see this link I posted. The article shows how to calculate the surface area of the filter or pond needed to consume ammonia at different temperatures.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/best-ever-article-pond-filtration-part-1-a-t3859.html

 

[DrCase]

Sevensandeights
that is a great spot for your pond..
And Clean water would look the best, at the door.
You did real good on your laguna price you will enjoy it
Like a lot of us i pump into the top , and send the water to the bottom,
and let the water rise back up through the filter material to the outlet on top of the filter

 

[koiguy1969]

#1 ..A properly built filter is very low in maintainence .. turn a knob every 2 or 3 weeks.. wait 30 seconds and turn it back, if thats too much maintaince you dont need or deserve a pond!!
#2 bacteria on its own does not stop alge it it breaks down biological wastes to plant usable compounds..alge is a plant!!
#3 a biofilter is nothing more than the bacteria you speak of living in a controlled enviorment..with the added advantage of the ability to remove excess solids at your convenience
#4 7.4 ph is no true deterrent to alge..where as it may be a less hospitable enviorment it wont stop it!! many people here maintain a ph of 7.4 or less and still have alge
#5 a real large clay bottomed naturally fed pond with lots of plants is its own filter . clays (some more than others) naturally allow for nutrient exchange.
#6 most people here have linered ponds, and unlike nature have way more bioload than even nature woild want to tackle due to stocking issues lord knows how many times a natural fish per gallon ratio. that said a filterless pond is highly unreccommended here on this site!!
P.S try going to a dedicated koi forum and see how your filtration thoughts are recieved!!!

 

[koikeepr]

LOL! Oh, this site is such a joy! I love these threads every time they come up, as the passion in all us ponders really comes out!

Getting back to our friend sevensandeights, however...

7&8's, the Laguna Filter Falls is a very, very good product. I always suggest DIY'ing first since it can be more cost-effective for most of us cheapskate ponding folks. And most of us could build a product similar to these falls. However, that being said, not everyone wants to DIY it and they just want an out-of-the-box solution. I think this one is a positive way for someone to go. It would certainly solve your dilemma as to where to hide your filter and it would serve another purpose for you in terms of adding a waterfall. Again, you've found another great price.

You are right in that the 100 gal rubbermaid isn't cheap and the right one is sometimes hard to find. If you DIY'ed this one, you might save about $100+ bucks when it was all done. Plus, the rubbermaid is going to be waaay larger than that laguna filter falls--therefore harder for you to hide given your location. So, in your situation, a store bought remedy might be the ticket. If you feel that you've hit your limit with DIY'ing after your dig and rock collecting, I can certainly respect that and can relate to the back-breaking work that is undeniably exhausting. I would be lying if I didn't say that when I knew I had to dig a filter pit in my Carolina clay soil for my barrel for gravity, that there weren't plenty of moments where I just said to myself: "maybe I should just buy a bead filter and be done with it!" LOL! But, I am a cheapskate, and the $800+ price for those filters got me digging....LOL!

I think that pump and filter combo will work great together and give you wonderful water quality. I'd like to see how you do with keeping your water clear. If you manage that well on your own, you will be lucky. Otherwise you'll need to think about adding a UV lamp in your system. I wouldn't worry about that until next spring, since the koi season for you is nearly over. See how you do and if you start seeing your water green or cloud up in the spring, I'd start with barley extract and see if that keeps your water clear without having to pay for a lamp. There are many on the site who don't use UV lights, and there are many who do. I am one of the ones who do and I swear by 'em.

Also, I happened to be in petsmart yesterday as this time of year they normally have big sales on their pond stuff since they're trying to clear everything out. I did notice 1 Laguna Filter Falls on the shelf left that had an orange sale tag on it, but I confess I do not remember the price. Call your local petsmart first and ask them if they still have one on the shelf and what the sale price is. Perhaps it's cheaper than the $290...dunno. Just throwing it out there for you to check on.

Looking forward to seeing how your set up ends up. Nice job so far.

 

[poodles-ponds and gardens]

I saw the 100 gal rubbermaid stock tanks at out local home and garden store (Menards) yesterday for $67.