Help w/Streams

[herzog.drew]

I think with a bit of work, you could make it look far more natural than it does at present. The trick is to dig back into your slope, making some twists and turns along the way. Instead of thinking in terms of building rocks up, think in terms of water digging a channel into the hillside. I'll post a potential rebuild of your pond below (using your original photo) to show you what I mean.


One thing that helped me to finally visualize the process is to forget about building "a stream" and instead, to dig the soil out exactly as I would if I were building a staircase. Think of carving out a landing, then a step up in one direction, another landing, a step up in another direction. Curve the stream around and out of sight. At the very top, you'll have your bog filter or bio filter, or, in the case of pond without fish, you could just have the pipe feed into a shallow pool.

Here's a visual for you:
View attachment 161704

This is your pond, but with a shallow staircase zig-zagging into the hillside above the pond. The total elevation is the same as before, but it's been divided up into several stairs and landings. None of the steps is very large -- maybe 8-10 cm max -- but by using a few large stones, rather than a bunch of small ones, the overall look is more natural.

This also has the advantage of having plenty of little pools for your dog to play in!



There are some great videos out there! Here's one that gave me a lot of inspiration on stream building:

Happy ponding!

You have been so much more helpful than I could’ve asked for, thank you.

Zig-zagging the stairs makes so much sense. Your edit of my original photo is better looking than anything I’ve even thought of in the past 3-4 years of having and working on this pond.

I must say, though, I’m not 100% sure that I will be able to purchase the larger rocks rather than the smaller stuff that I currently have. The rock quarry closest to me’s cheapest “large” rocks have just been too high out of my price range. Maybe I just need to search for a new place to purchase rocks.

Thanks again for the just insane amount of help you’ve given on this thread.

 

[YShahar]

I must say, though, I’m not 100% sure that I will be able to purchase the larger rocks rather than the smaller stuff that I currently have. The rock quarry closest to me’s cheapest “large” rocks have just been too high out of my price range. Maybe I just need to search for a new place to purchase rocks.

Thanks again for the just insane amount of help you’ve given on this thread.

You're very welcome! If anyone's doing any building near where you live, you may be able to scrounge rocks from the building site. Most of mine came out of the hole as I was digging, but I picked up a few more from people giving away garden stones. And a few I scrounged from building sites and from out in the fields. You can check places like Facebook Marketplace as well; that's where I found a lot of my river rock.

Despite how big they look in my stream photos, those rocks aren't all that large. Most are just at the limit of my ability to lift (I'm a somewhat short granny), but still small enough for me to roll them into place. That's the size rock to look for. You can make them look larger by putting two stones at the same level and filling the space between them with gravel, making it look like one huge rock with a fissure in it.

Cheers!

 

[GBBUDD]

Just came across this video . Very simple it shows how the larger 3x the size of the stream is in the long run so much easier to create a natural wonder. Cut into the hill side and way over size it. This allows for creativity and not being stuck within a narrow area.

 

[herzog.drew]

Just came across this video . Very simple it shows how the larger 3x the size of the stream is in the long run so much easier to create a natural wonder. Cut into the hill side and way over size it. This allows for creativity and not being stuck within a narrow area.

Did you attach a video? If so, I’m not seeing it.

 

[GBBUDD]

Guess it didn't post it was on fb

 

[YShahar]

Guess it didn't post it was on fb

You did post a Facebook clip on another thread, but as far as I could tell, it was just a before and after shot. Or am I missing something?

 

[GBBUDD]

You did post a Facebook clip on another thread, but as far as I could tell, it was just a before and after shot. Or am I missing something?

it was very basic but it showed how a excavation for a stream coming down a slope was three times the width of the finished stream. it allows artistic freedom and ease in choosing your rocks and the size of pools

 

[YShahar]

it was very basic but it showed how a excavation for a stream coming down a slope was three times the width of the finished stream. it allows artistic freedom and ease in choosing your rocks and the size of pools

Was it this one?

It’s just a back garden pondless water falls on a steep hillside. #inspiredbynature_ #backyardgarden #backgardenview #pondlesswaterfall | Gerard Touhey | Glen Miller And His Orchestra · In The Mood

It’s just a back garden pondless water falls on a steep hillside. #inspiredbynature_ #backyardgarden #backgardenview #pondlesswaterfall. Glen Miller And His Orchestra · In The Mood

www.facebook.com

 

[newponddiyer]

Streams are a great addition to the pond! Not only do they add more color, places to plant, and great sound, but they also oxygenate the water for the residents of the pond. Besides the advice you've already gotten, here are a few things that have helped me:

First, think of the stream as a series of small ponds. You can control the amount of water flowing from one section to the other simply by raising the sides a bit, so that water pools up higher before spilling into the next section. Here's a view of my main stream out of the bog to illustrate what I mean:

View attachment 161695

(By the way, the forum allows images up to 1000 px on the longest side, as far as I know). In this photo, you see how there are two sections that are almost flat, but with one a bit lower than the other. The sides are fairly high, so that a lot of water piles up before going over the stone between the sections.

Here's what this looks like from the other side:

View attachment 161697

As you can see, the drop isn't all that great: about 8 cm from one level to the other and about 20 cm down from the stream to the pond. The trick is to think in terms of a staircase, with a very subtle slope from one stair to the next. That way, the water won't be in too great a hurry to flow down, but will pile up behind your spillway stones. Even if your pump isn't super-powerful, so long as each pool is water-tight, the water won't spill over into the next pool until it reaches a certain height.

Which brings us to the next issue: as @GBBUDD said, the secret to getting the water to go over, rather than under, the rocks is to make bib liners!

Since I can't get waterfall foam where I live (Israel), and construction foam doesn't work as well, I used underlayment to make my bib liners. I covered the entire stream bed with underlayment before placing any rocks, then put my edging rocks in. Then I put another piece of underlayment on the bottom of the stream and cut it so that the edges came up about 2-3 cm in front of the edging rocks. I put a lot of pea gravel and river rock on top of it to hold it in place, then backfilled with sand and clay kitty litter between this piece of underlayment and the edge rocks, and used chopsticks to push the sand up underneath any voids under the rocks.

Over time, the sand and kitty litter silted up so thoroughly that it formed a water-resistant barrier around and under the edge rocks. This is similar to what would happen in a stream in nature, and the nice thing is that it works better over time.

One other trick to making your stream look natural is to angle the edge rocks just a bit inward. In the photo above, you can see that the left-hand side of the stream looks a bit more natural than the right-hand side, due to the angle of the rocks. Next time I do any tinkering, I'll work on the right-hand side to get the same effect.

Happy ponding!

-Yael

Beautiful pond great job!

 

[Scooter2323]

Welcome to the forum.

first thing to consider is how mother nature creates a stream / waterfall. It's hard to see in your photo but it doesn't look like the stream is dug/ cut into the hill side by too much. By doing so this helps to control the water in the stream. it alows us to have sides high enough to wrap the liner up behind a rock along the edge hiding the liner. and also helps catch some splash and directing it back into the stream.

Secondly every water fall or drop in a stream usually does so by landing in a little pooling area. Trying to make the water drop from rock to rock to rock is 1. not easy to control. 2 usually CREATES LOTS OF SPLASHING 3 OR MAKES FOR SO MANY ARES TRYING to run down stream you need more water to look like there's any there at all. Attached is an example of how many gph show when the fall over a waterfall . i think you'll see even 5000 gallons per hour is not a massive waterfall.

now every time you place a boulder at best your probably going to get 2/3 the water you are pumping to show over the rock while you loose a 1/3.... under or off to the side. this is where bib liners and water fall foam come into play. Think of bib liners like a window louver. start at the bottom of the stream or falls and create your rock area and at the top of the falls you'll want to make a little pooling area. you can do a easy way and a better way . easy way is when you go to set the rock you use waterfall foam / expandable foam under the rock filling in any voids between the rock and the liner. Now your probably thinking cool i'm all set . this is the secrets. well unfortunately it's only part, waterfall foam is not water proof. what is does do is slow down the water drastically. ISTEAD OF ALOWING A FLOW OF WATER TO GET THROUGH IT ONLY ALOWS A WEEPING AMOUNT OF WATER.

Now one thing i have done is to take sand and gravel small small stuff and once the foam just starts to skin over throw the sand on it so it sticks to the foam making it look like like a stream bed. Now if you want to control even more of the water then one thing i have done is before the i throw the sand on the foam i'll let the foam set and then coat it with caulking a fish friendly caulking this can make it water proof or close to it.

Then you have a the bib liner and what that is is , ONCE YOU HAVE CRERATED YOUR FALLS AND POOLS. you can then cut a new piece of liner and close up a lot of the gaps that are now blobs of water fall foam. you can even have the liner come up onto the lower areas where you want the water to drop over next and hide it with the foam and sand . go on youtube and lok up videos on pondless water falls and you'll find some sooner or latter that will show you what i am talking about.

 

[Scooter2323]

I just have to say that video showing the differing pump volumes is awesome! I wish I’d seen that video when I first started 40 years ago! I appreciate your shared knowledge and expertise on this forum -

 

[GBBUDD]

I just have to say that video showing the differing pump volumes is awesome! I wish I’d seen that video when I first started 40 years ago! I appreciate your shared knowledge and expertise on this forum -

We are all happy to help, We just ask for pics of the project along the way and when your finished i learned far more from Videos and photos then i did from text.

 

[GBBUDD]

I appreciate your shared knowledge and expertise on this forum

nothing but a fellow hobbyist who has learned by trial and error . Many here doing the same adding their experience

 

[herzog.drew]

Hey everybody. Planning on this weekend finally being my time to work on this project. I’m going to try to do similar to the re-design that YShahar created for me.

I just wanted to make sure I’m doing everything correctly, so please review my plan: I’m going to take all of the small boulders on the sides out and the small gravel inside the stream out. I’ll take the liner out and dig into the streams, creating like shelves. I will purchase larger rocks for the sides of the stream. Do I put the rocks on the side first and then the liner inside of them? Or lay the liner, put the rocks on the side, and then waterfall foam with some sand at the bottoms of it all?

 

[GBBUDD]

Trust me i get wanting to water running on a new stream. But the questions your asking are very basic. ones where it is going to cost you a good deal of time and money. I strongly suggest watching videos non stop from Modern design aquascapes on you tube. Altlantis water garden and even oz ponds . watch what they are doing and look outside what they are discussing. FIRT advice is to make the liner extra wide and not limit yourself to a bowling alley