Help please, ammonia 8ppm!

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For 150 gallons, 1/2 ounce of baking soda will raise the KH one drop.

I would do no more than that, maybe less, and see how it affects the pH.

Raise it a little each day until you find the level you want. KH can be between 100 and 400, so there is no precise number. I keep mine around 200 since my filter works best at that level.

Once the pH reaches 8 or so, you can put in as much baking soda as you want to reach your goal. Unless you have some unusual water, the pH won't go above 8.3 so it won't increase enough to bother the fish when you get to that point. Until then though, go slowly so the pH rise will be gradual.

The harder your bacteria works to convert all that ammonia, the faster the KH will be depleted. So keep an eye on it and add more baking soda when necessary.
 
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Up to date readings after slowly adding bicarb as suggested. I did a 30 per cent water change yesterday.
17.6.21 PH 7, NH3 5, NO2 .025, NO3 5, KH 5
18.6.21 PH 7, NH3 5, NO2 0.25, NO3 10, KH 4
21.6.21 PH 8.5, NH3 5, NO2 2, NO3 40, KH 7

I get that as I'm using seachem Amguard I will be getting false positives. But also wondering why for months now, filter isn't getting rid of bound ammonia over time. Have put a seachem ammonia alert disk in the water and it's reading (kind of hard to tell, mixed reports about reliability) somewhere between alert and alarm. I've now ordered the free vs total ammonia test kit (again very mixed reports about reliability). With the higher nitrate and nitrite, does this mean it's actually cycling better and just a matter of time? Thanks!
 
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Yes, the cycle is working. But I think it's becoming clear that you don't have enough filtration. What you have is being overwhelmed. As many of us have said already, you need more, a larger filter, and/or more plants. The only way to keep that many fish in that amount of water is with massive filtration. The other solution is to rehome at least half of the fish.

I'm a firm believer that you can't have too much filtration. Filters seem to be rated at twice the amount of water they can actually handle, and that gets even worse when there are fish like goldfish in the equation.

Get a larger filter, 3 or 4 times what you currently have would be good. Use the media that you now have to seed it. It should quickly grow enough beneficial bacteria to take care of the ammonia you have.
 
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Yes, the cycle is working. But I think it's becoming clear that you don't have enough filtration. What you have is being overwhelmed. As many of us have said already, you need more, a larger filter, and/or more plants. The only way to keep that many fish in that amount of water is with massive filtration. The other solution is to rehome at least half of the fish.

I'm a firm believer that you can't have too much filtration. Filters seem to be rated at twice the amount of water they can actually handle, and that gets even worse when there are fish like goldfish in the equation.

Get a larger filter, 3 or 4 times what you currently have would be good. Use the media that you now have to seed it. It should quickly grow enough beneficial bacteria to take care of the ammonia you have.
I second that. We had ammonia issues last year and I got another filter with it's own pump etc and ran that in concert with our existing skimmer/waterfall filter setup and it's been much better.
 
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Thanks both. I have 1 inpond 5 in 1 3000l and an additional pump and filter too (added about 6 weeks ago), would have to check exact spec on that but it's pretty much as powerful. Do you think there's any chance, with both of them hopefully building up the bacteria now, it will settle down? There was a time I was only testing about once a week because it all seemed stable. At that time I wasn't regularly putting ammo lock in and no distress then or since apparent in fish. But accept things change and it's overstocked. Be absolutely gutted to rehome 2 as really attached. I have ordered a box to make a bog filter but it's only 90l and will take a bit of time, don't know if that'll make enough of a difference? Hard to define what a lot of plants is, but certainly elodia, duckweed and watercress and if I take a bucket of water out generally has plants in it. Will chuck some more watercress in as most easily available
 
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So confusing! Looked at blagdon equivalent, for 9000 l ponds. Says both that flow rate is 650l per hour... and that it pumps up to 3000l per hour. Their customer service is pretty unresponsive from past experience too...
 
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This year we put water celery in the pond cause the pond shop guy said it was an ammonia inhaler. Both pots were growing great until my lead koi, Haku, discovered that it tastes good and then taught the rest of the squad how to pull the stems down and gobble the leaves up. Now I have two pots of mostly stems and some sad leaves LOL
 
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Same happened to my lilies... but will pop and get some watercress tomorrow! They should appreciate they'd look especially glorious amidst some pretty flowers and plants!
 
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If the fish seem happy and are not in distress, do the readings matter? The high tech way to tell if gold fish can survive, is if plants can survive. You are in an ongoing cycle of chasing numbers. Maybe just add some more plants, they help most things. And if you are going to work on a bog filter, put your energy into that. I tested my water a lot at the beginning. And have not tested in the many months since. My little pond is only 1 year old. I have had 1 fish die of something unclear. It got sick, and slow, and puffier, then died a few months ago. No other fish got sick. My other fish deaths have been predation. Otherwise, my fish seem happy. Even though I accidentally drained the pond to very low last week (my bog was overflowing outside of the pond over night), and had to refill it with chlorinated tap water without dechlorinator, all fish survived the low water over night and the majority of water being replaced with chlorinated water. I do have dechlorinator now and will add it if there is ever a need for so much new water. Good luck with your water babies.
 
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The fish are happy and not stressed because she is aware there is a problem and is adding ammo lock to prevent her fish from dying from the huge amount of ammonia. Without the ammo lock her fish would have all died long before now.

Without testing she wouldn't know what the problem was when all her fish started to die.

Once a pond is established with enough beneficial bacteria to process the amount of ammonia being produced, testing is not so critical. But when a pond is just getting started and is beginning the nitrogen cycle it's good to know how toxic the water is becoming, by testing frequently, so that we can prevent damaging, or killing the fish.
 
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Otherwise, my fish seem happy.

This is always my favorite observation - what does an "unhappy" fish look like, I always wonder?

Of course the numbers matter - or you can just wait until the fish are "unhappy" (which I assume would mean sick, dying, or dead) and then wonder what changed the vibe.
 
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Plants growing tells you nothing about how fish will survive in the same water.

Plants feed on ammonia and thrive on that. Fish die from the ammonia literally burning them alive, eating away their skin and destroying their gills so they sufficate. Not a pleasant way to die.

How do you know that the fish you have had die didn't die from something you could have successfully treated if you had just tested the water? Most health problems with fish come from poor quality water. And quality of the water has nothing do with clarity. It has to do with those numbers.
 
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To me, "happy fish" are swimming about and interacting with each other and coming up to be fed. Unhappy fish are gasping for air, or flashing, or lethargic, or have visible injuries or swelling and are not interested in food. (Assuming hibernation is a normal cold weather state, I am referring to their active times of year).

I believe a living pond has healthier water for fish than fresh city treated tap water. I know you are doing water changes to get rid of ammonia per your readings. But how is that much ammonia building up so quickly in the new water? This is what makes me doubt the reading is accurate., or meaningful.

I trust nature and a living pond to take care of itself more than I trust adding a bunch of chemicals and powders to treated city water.

I do not believe that 4 goldfish in a 600 plus gallon pond is overstocked. I have a dozen goldfish in a smaller pond. I also have frogs, toads, insect larvae including dragonfly nymphs. So for anyone who wants to say my water parameters may be off, they may be, but sensitive wildlife is living and thriving so that is a better test for me than the numbers on test kits.

Something still seems off to me about your measurements. I understand you have tried multiple test kits. But do the numbers actually matter if the fish are not dying, and the plants are living? I love my fish too and feel sad if something happens to any of them. Some have said fish should be dead at those readings. If that is the case, are the readings accurate? You are not describing symptoms of ammonia toxicity in your fish.

Posters have described thinking their fish died and they ignored a pond for a year or more without the pump running or maintaining it, then discovering goldfish were alive in it the whole time. Goldfish can survive in nasty flood control canals/ponds, as well as in small glass bowls with no pump or plants. They are very hardy. Of course we want our sweet fish to have a perfect happy clear water home. But they are able to survive in much worse water conditions.

I would try to slow down on water changes and adding chemicals and let the plants and life in your pond find their own balance. It is not sustainable to keep adding chemicals, powders, and doing major water changes. Your pond needs to reach an equilibrium of it's own with your water and your plants and animal and bacteria life. The frequent water changes keep disrupting your pond from reaching a natural state. I trust the water in a living pond with your filters and pumps and plants, much more than I trust tap water with added chemicals for your fish. 4 fish can only make so much waste in a day that the plants and the existing bacteria are helping process. The chemicals are just more things in the water for the plants and fish to be dealing with, that are potentially more toxic than waste from 4 goldfish.

Again, 4 goldfish of any size is not overstocked in your pond! 3 1/2 feet deep is a good sized pond. Are you sure on your dimensions? I thought I was 2-3 feet deep. But when I measured, I am under 2 feet, closer to 18 inches at my pond's deepest, and all of my fish over wintered fine. What are your total dimensions? Do you have pictures you can post so we see what you have?

I am a beginner on this site. My current pond is only about a year old. I had a pond with a waterfall that was bigger at my old house for 12 years. I had no fish die offs. But........it was relatively ignored and I never tested the water. I added water if it got low, occasionally overflowed it to flush it out with well water if there were too many floating leaves. I drained it and probably overcleaned it every few years and added new pond plants. That was the only time I could count my fish, when I got them out into a plastic bin while I did the deeper cleaning of draining and shoveling and scooping out the muck and spraying all the concrete with a hose. The only filter was around the pump so it wouldn't get clogged. There was a massive water celery that I would have to majorly trim from time to time. The goldfish did seem happy and reproduced over time. But, raccoons there too, so it never got over populated. I rarely fed those fish. They grazed on the plants and insects. It was right outside my back door with a bridge over it to the back yard. I miss it. The owners we bought the house from said some of the fish were from when they had moved in 10 years earlier. I did not have the same level of obsession and sitting and staring at my fish that I have now. That first pond was closer to 1000 gallons and 3 feet deep. So I am not a complete novice to keeping a pond and fish alive.

I have had one goldfish die in my current pond in the year or so I have had it. Just the one fish got slow and puffy. All of the others were their normal selves. So I do not believe it was water parameters that killed the one fish and did not affect any of the others. I believe it was some kind of organ failure in that one fish, and it may have been unhealthy from the store. (My other fish deaths/disappearance were raccoons, with scales and some innards left next to the pond. I have put a fence over my pond to save my precious fish from raccoons. They have more chance of escaping if the raccoon can only get a paw in at a time. I can not keep the darn raccoons out of my yard). I watch this pond closely and spend almost an hour a day sitting and staring at it. It is my meditation/relaxation.

I truly care about my specific fish too. I will take them with me if I move from this house!

The advice "stop testing your water, if plants can grow, the water is fine for goldfish" is a quote I got from a local pond store/water plant store owner. I do feel there is wisdom in his words.

My pond is concrete lined and relatively new from last summer. He told me that when I talked to him about how long to wait to add fish, for the concrete to cure and settle.

This discussion makes me want to check my water parameters out of curiosity. But I only have the less accurate test strips.

You are definitely a great fish mom and are putting a lot of time and caring into your lucky fish and pond. Your fish have survived over a year. You were doing something right before the past few months of testing and trying to reach a balance on the test parameters. I understand your fish have grown. But you have added plants and more filtration too.
 
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The pond is not 600 gallons. It is 600 LITERS or 153 gallons.

What I believe happened is that the pond was shut down for winter, and when it was started up again, the pH fell to the point that the beneficial bacteria could not get reestablished.

The fish grew over time and the waste they produced overwhelmed the filtration system which couldn't get going because the pH was too low.

There is no way to fix that other than to raise the pH to a level that the bacteria can grow. That was done by adding baking soda, very easy and very safe.

The only other thing that is now being added is the ammo lock. That is what is keeping the fish alive at those ammonia readings. It's necessary for the fish to survive.

I won't say how I feel about what that store person told you, but I do know that the most ignorant people I have ever run across in this hobby are ones who work in pet and pond stores. Not saying that they are all that way, but it's not uncommon, at least not where I live. Just be sure to carefully check whatever they tell you, including the statement you mentioned.

They are there to sell you things and if all your fish die because they gave you bad advice, the better that is for them. You will have to buy more an they will likely sell you other products that they claim will prevent future death's.

I'm glad your pond and fish are doing well. But what works for you can be a disaster for someone else. You have to consider the situation and circumstances for each pond. This pond needs help and that is what we are trying to provide.

Adding more plants is a good idea, but that still wouldn't have corrected the pH problem.
 

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