Hello from MO

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Hello everyone! :wave:

I've been lurking here about a month, and got a deal on some rock so I decided to take on building a pond this late in the season. We recently moved and had a small (maybe 150 gallon) pond where we lived, but it just had a submersable pump with an attached filter, and I never really learned the right way as far as filtration and such.

We plan to do about a 12x12x2 pond with a waterfall/stream 8-10 ft long using the dig dirt to build it up (the yard is pretty level). I have read, and plan to build, the DIY stock tank filter. My main question, and I'm not sure if I should ask it here or not is how do you keep the bottom clean using a skimmer with the stock bio-filter?

I would appreciate any help on that, and I would like to purchase a wier from someone here is possible. I will read and try to not bother to much, and update progress. We have a lot of rock to work with, and a small variety of plants. We also have some kio fry that are approaching 2 inches or so that spawned in our last pond that are in a tank temporarily.

Lastly, we look forward to meeting new people with a similar interest, learning, and hopefully some day being able to pass on that knowledge.

Thanks!
 
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My main question, and I'm not sure if I should ask it here or not is how do you keep the bottom clean using a skimmer with the stock bio-filter?
A skimmer isn't really involved in keeping the pond bottom, just keeps the surface clean. Of course it keeps some stuff from ending up on the bottom, but I wouldn't say it cleans the bottom.

A bio filter also wouldn't be involved in keeping a pond bottom clean. The bacteria in a bio filter can't do their thing if cover by even the tiniest bit of muck. So if you ever have to clean a bio filter it wouldn't actually be much of a bio filter. Bio filters convert ammonia and nitrite which kill fish into nitrate which is safe for fish at reasonable levels.

For keeping a pond bottom clean you have options. One would be a vacuum. Another would be a mechanical filter system. One or more bottom drains in addition to TPRs (Tangential Pond Returns) to sweep muck to the drains. Without the TPRs the bottom generally collects muck so the drain isn't very useful.

The drain connects to a mechanical filter of which there are an almost endless variety. Many don't really work very well, many require a lot of cleaning or use a lot of water to flush. It's best to narrow the field by defining your goals and budget.

Beyond vacuums and mechanical filters there are lots of products in bottles that promise a clean pond, but if you read close they say things like "helps" and "clean pond" with the understanding that they're free to consider a pond being clean while there is still muck on the bottom. It's more about marketing than results.
 

addy1

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welcomefromgang4.gif
to our group!

I have a skimmer, no bottom drain. I just net the bottom of the pond in the spring and fall (using a swimming pool net and pole). Not that much work, to me.

Bottom drains, if put in right, with good water flow help keep the bottom clean.
 

sissy

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welcome ,Not sure what your weather is like but you may want to go deeper ,deeper is always better for fish cool in the summer heat and warmer in the winter .I just net mine too ,swimming pool net and no skimmer and no bottom drain here .
 
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welcome ,Not sure what your weather is like but you may want to go deeper ,deeper is always better for fish cool in the summer heat and warmer in the winter .I just net mine too ,swimming pool net and no skimmer and no bottom drain here .

So how then do you keep the "muck" fom building up on the bottom? Do you have river rock, or gravel on the bottom? I may actually go deeper, although that will be the dig, the rest will be built up around the edges to both, use up some of the excess material, and deepen the pond. Any other suggestions would be great and appreciated. I am against a bottom drain if at all possible, as I feel that may exceed my capabilities.
A skimmer isn't really involved in keeping the pond bottom, just keeps the surface clean. Of course it keeps some stuff from ending up on the bottom, but I wouldn't say it cleans the bottom.

A bio filter also wouldn't be involved in keeping a pond bottom clean. The bacteria in a bio filter can't do their thing if cover by even the tiniest bit of muck. So if you ever have to clean a bio filter it wouldn't actually be much of a bio filter. Bio filters convert ammonia and nitrite which kill fish into nitrate which is safe for fish at reasonable levels.

For keeping a pond bottom clean you have options. One would be a vacuum. Another would be a mechanical filter system. One or more bottom drains in addition to TPRs (Tangential Pond Returns) to sweep muck to the drains. Without the TPRs the bottom generally collects muck so the drain isn't very useful.

The drain connects to a mechanical filter of which there are an almost endless variety. Many don't really work very well, many require a lot of cleaning or use a lot of water to flush. It's best to narrow the field by defining your goals and budget.

Beyond vacuums and mechanical filters there are lots of products in bottles that promise a clean pond, but if you read close they say things like "helps" and "clean pond" with the understanding that they're free to consider a pond being clean while there is still muck on the bottom. It's more about marketing than results.
I meant flushing the solids out of the bio-filter, forgive my newbie-ness. I kinda figured a vacuum was the solution. I, also, would like to steer away from a mechanical filter. My plan was a skimmer with a homemade skippy filter. If I have researched correctly that seems to be the most common way, but please correct me if I am wrong.
welcomefromgang4.gif
to our group!

I have a skimmer, no bottom drain. I just net the bottom of the pond in the spring and fall (using a swimming pool net and pole). Not that much work, to me.

Bottom drains, if put in right, with good water flow help keep the bottom clean.
Is your bottom river rock or gravel? I am having a hard time envisioning netting the muck that would build up in rock. Do most people rock the bottom of their ponds? From watching videos it seems everyone covers the bottom woth river rock or gravel.
welcome ,Not sure what your weather is like but you may want to go deeper ,deeper is always better for fish cool in the summer heat and warmer in the winter .I just net mine too ,swimming pool net and no skimmer and no bottom drain here .
I will probably go deeper - our last pond was 18-24 inches and it did fine over the Winter, but that was more of an accent, whereas this I plan to be a feature that adds value to a recently purchased home.



Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome :) I'm going to pick up a 70 gallon rubbermate stock tank today and start on the filter. The weather here is absolutely beautiful so maybe I will start :goodnight: today. I do have a tree that concerns me some. I may upload some site pics today for imput. I hope to do most of it renting a Dingo from Home Depot. I picked up a skid of rock yesterday. Also, here in MO, we have access to unlimited rock ;-)
 
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This is the extent of my pond knowledge. I believe in the pic the lower pond was plastic, which was later replaced and made a little larger with a liner, due to it cracking. The pond just had a submersible pump with an attached filter.

641.jpg
 

sissy

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I have no rock in my pond and so far this summer have not had to clean my filters because i have plants floating in them .I am trying to make the pond and filter take care of itself with little help as possible .Just the baskets on top to catc








h fine stuff
 
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I meant flushing the solids out of the bio-filter, forgive my newbie-ness.
No problem. Having to flush a bio filter means it isn't a bio filter, it's a mechanical. The dirt being flushed was mechanically trapped inside the filter. A bio filter requires a living colony of two different species of bacteria, neither of which can live to any great degree in a filter that traps dirt. Many people and sellers like to call these filters "bio filters" because that's what they want them to be....but that doesn't make it true except maybe in the loosest of terms.

My plan was a skimmer with a homemade skippy filter. If I have researched correctly that seems to be the most common way, but please correct me if I am wrong.
In this forum Skippy filters are considered very good filters, bio, mechanical, combo doesn't seem to matter. In other forums Skippy is no longer considered a very good bio, mechanical or combo filter. It was considered king of filters 10-15 years ago. The difference in opinion seems to have different aspects. Some people just like building stuff and building a Skippy seems to be just the right mix of complexity and cost to satisfy the crafting bug. Some people need filters to perform well in order to keep fish alive so they test various filters and Skippy is at the bottom of the list for those people. In a water garden forum like here, and you have a water garden, Skippy is a fine filter because generally a filter isn't really needed to keep the fish alive or the pond reasonably clean. After going to the trouble and cost of building a Skippy virtually every water gardener is extremely happy with the result. For people who need to rely on filters to keep fish alive the results are more obvious with Skippy, dead fish. Those people moved to better filters years ago.

I'm going to pick up a 70 gallon rubbermate stock tank today and start on the filter.
Wish I'd read this before answering about the Skippy.
 

sissy

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I love your dark cannas I finally got some this year and you have some nice looking elephant ears but remember before winter comes either dig all those bulbs up or cover them in a really good pile of mulch to keep the bulbs from freezing .I know when I lived in NJ I used to put a nice heavy flower pot over them and surround that with mulch .
 
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No problem. Having to flush a bio filter means it isn't a bio filter, it's a mechanical. The dirt being flushed was mechanically trapped inside the filter. A bio filter requires a living colony of two different species of bacteria, neither of which can live to any great degree in a filter that traps dirt. Many people and sellers like to call these filters "bio filters" because that's what they want them to be....but that doesn't make it true except maybe in the loosest of terms.


In this forum Skippy filters are considered very good filters, bio, mechanical, combo doesn't seem to matter. In other forums Skippy is no longer considered a very good bio, mechanical or combo filter. It was considered king of filters 10-15 years ago. The difference in opinion seems to have different aspects. Some people just like building stuff and building a Skippy seems to be just the right mix of complexity and cost to satisfy the crafting bug. Some people need filters to perform well in order to keep fish alive so they test various filters and Skippy is at the bottom of the list for those people. In a water garden forum like here, and you have a water garden, Skippy is a fine filter because generally a filter isn't really needed to keep the fish alive or the pond reasonably clean. After going to the trouble and cost of building a Skippy virtually every water gardener is extremely happy with the result. For people who need to rely on filters to keep fish alive the results are more obvious with Skippy, dead fish. Those people moved to better filters years ago.


Wish I'd read this before answering about the Skippy.

Well I didn't make it to pick up the tank. My thinking was roughly a 10x10x2 pond. The tank is 24 inches tall, so by the time I blocked it up it, and once I put some kinda weir on it I would be roughly 30 inches above pond level. I then planned to make a 5x4 or so stream 10 ft long to the pond, from the tank if that makes sense. If there's a better way I'm all ears, as I'm just learning here. Thanks for the help.
I love your dark cannas I finally got some this year and you have some nice looking elephant ears but remember before winter comes either dig all those bulbs up or cover them in a really good pile of mulch to keep the bulbs from freezing .I know when I lived in NJ I used to put a nice heavy flower pot over them and surround that with mulch .

That is/was our old place and pond. I thinned the bulbs before we moved ;-) My favorite which I had to finally cut down is this one. I elephant ear up 2 years in a row and brought it inside over the Winter, the buld itself was almost the size of a Basketball! Some of the cannas I have against the foundation make it, so I just thin them in the Spring as opposed to digging up the ones that don't make it, they multiply so quickly.

002-1.jpg
 

sissy

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I hve the black and green ones and lost all mine the 2010 winter so starting over this year






 

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sissy

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Yours have really thick leaves and wonder if they are a different kind .I got a red stemmed one from florida hill nursery.com
 

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